A Little Help With 2 Cent Washington.

Need a second opinion here. First I thought that the stamp in the middle is a discolored offset, but the foil test leaves clear stamp details as a flat. It is perforated 11 all around with no water mark. Missing all these fine details I still think it is very discolored 499, but... am I missing something?

Another head scratcher. The stamp on the right is perforated 11 all around, based on foil test is flat, and appears to be unwatermarked. It can ether be type I or Ia. The toga button is well defined, but the rope is not well defined, even though it is defined better than my other Type I I have. I still think it is type I. What do you think.

Both of your suspect stamps appear to be Type I to me. Give me some time to sleep then I'll explain all of the relevant details of why I think so. I highly doubt that your Type II is actually what you think it is based on your statements comparing it to the images that you show here. These types are tricky to identify.

Goodnight,
Ryan

Hi, Danko... here's a nice reference pic for you of Type 1a...

Oops! Sleepy me read that as Type II. disi, thank you for contributing something that is actually relevant.

Your first one is what you think that it is, a type I #499. There are no other possible variants although single line watermarks can be very difficult to see. As you noted, it hasn't aged well and is discolored.

Your second suspect is also a Type I. Some of them have a pretty well defined top toga rope line and button outline. Your stamp does not.

As penance for posting when I'm too tired, here's a variant of Type I that can get confusing, the Type I rotary print coils:



Some of these can be difficult to distinguish from Type II stamps until you learn the differences well. This Type I stamp's lines are about as defined as some lighter printed Type II stamps. For these coils you also have to look at other areas to make the distinction.

Hi to all

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the foil test? and how is it done?

Regards

Horamakhet

The foil test is one method to differentiate between offset printings and flat plate/rotary printings. Flat/Rotary prints are made using an Intaglio process that results in the stamps surface having ridges. I like to take cheap/thin aluminum foil, place it over the stamp, and then rub a cotton swab over the entire stamp with just a little pressure back and forth. If you can see the design appear on the tinfoil, then you know that it is not an offset printing.

Thanks for that, Historial DNA Collector.

I never knew that, that is fantastic,'
This forum is just jam packed with great ideas.
Horamakhet

You're welcome Horamkhet. After looking at enough of each type of prints, offsets are easily identified in most cases by appearance alone. The foil test is very useful when learning the different types and when you have a stamp that seems to have characteristics of both offset and intaglio prints. Here's a typical flat plat print. Notice how the shading around Washington's eye is detailed and could be individual eyebrow hairs:



Here's another example of a flat plat printing that is more pronounced. You can still some detail in the lines around the eye:



This is typical of an offset printing. The detail around the eye is absent. It's a solid area of color. There may be better areas to see this in, but this is where I look:



Everyone else, please chime in with how you visually identify offset prints.

Offsets are so much cruder than engraved flat plate stamps that it seems obvious just looking at them. Also the specific characteristics of the various offset types do not appear on flat plate stamps, the left numeral two and the dots on the nose should be dead giveaways every time.

revcollector, I agree, but those particular aspects are not easy to "see" until one has a trained eye. I wrote my last reply and provided images because the distinction does take some effort to learn or at least staring at many examples of each type for someone to easily identify the different types.