Button, Button, Who ...

Gee, I wonder who really has this today.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/161621543699


http://www.ebay.com/itm/121575578779


Free market hijinx or moral corruption?

He usually doesn't make those kinds of mistakes. Obviously tenshillings is just another one of multiple names that this seller uses. We know who this is, and we have a fair amount of additional information on his actions. Just last week via Stamp Smarter I received another horror story and I'll only say this; anyone who counts on any 'money back guarantee' should think twice.
Don

He's getting to be harder to spot, now that he's shifted to US item locations. And I noticed he has some things as buy-it-now that appear to be priced correctly, but at the low end of everything including grade. Nothing worth anything is reasonable, and it seems that nothing reasonable is worth anything.

Of course if anyone thinks they could get that strip for just a bit more than the opening bid, well....

Oh no....I've got a "tenshilling" item on 'watch'.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/14159130184...RK:MEBIDX:IT

UNTRUE....
ebay rules state you can return for a refund.
Must be paid thru PayPal.

Anytime someone opens a case for a return the
money from PayPal from the seller is "held"
pending the outcome of the return.

I purchased a c13 65c Zeppelin from
"one of the cartel" user ids.
I received it immediately....unfortunately
is was regummed.
I contacted the seller about a return.
Immediately my money was refunded....and then
I was told to return the item.
I thought the return policy was excellent!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-10c-Spec...047675.l2557

stampcrow.....previously listed/unsold by another
"cartel" member

Kevin,
No offense but you don't have the experience that I have gone through in the last year running Stamp Smarter. I realize that I am seeing, and hearing, about the seedy underbelly of ebay and online selling and I try to not let that color my perspective. But take my word for it, there are large number of buyers who are getting screwed by being unable to get any kind of return recourse. Some of those that do end up spending large amounts of time, effort, expense, and frustration before getting any kind of satisfaction.

I am sure that there are good sellers who make handling returns simple and easy. But you have to acknowledge that there are also those who do not and in fact will make it as arduous as possible in hopes the buyer will give up at some point.

The key is to be educated; arm yourself with as much info as you can on the seller's history. No one comes out good (except the shipping firms) when you have to return items. Unless you know otherwise, assume that getting a return will not be simple or easy.
Don


Edit: I have at least 6 emails from buyers who have had issues with returns from this seller. I do not feel comfortable publishing them without permission.

Also I believe UNTRUE!
When you open a case for a return.....
the seller has a certain amount of time to
respond. If the seller does not reply within
the alotted time or buyer asks to immediately ebay
will step in and render a judgement.
I am sure since the seller did not reply ebay
will rule infavor of the buyer.

How can a buyer lose???
They basically now can get the item
"on approval"....if they dont want it they
just return it.

Kevin,
So you are saying that the people who emailed are lying? Or that perhaps I am lying? I don't understand.

I am happy you had one return with this seller and it went smoothly. I have evidence of at least 6 times when this was not the case. You have a lot of experience as a seller and if memory serves me correctly your previous posts show you to be a believer in the 'buyer beware' approach. That's fine. I think I understand why you need to take that approach. We will just have to disagree one this one.
Don

Edit: Also note this seller has had negative feedback (under other names) that specifically called out problems with returns. For example, one buyer said, "Non existent return policy!" and another stated, "Be careful. Never responds to emails..."

I think you need to read the posts better....
NEVER once had I said anyone is lying.

ebay is PRO buyer.
That is OK....makes buyers feel safe.

How can a buyer NOT get a refund???
Can you explain this to me???
You have 6 emails from buyers who claim that???

This seller will make returns. Some years ago I bought one group of Specimens from the seller when the account first appeared. Unfortunately they were regummed and I had to return them because the price was too high for no gum. The regumming was curling the stamps making them quite brittle. The seller is willing to make returns knowing that the next four buyers won't be able to tell the difference and will keep the stamps.

While PayPal will generally process refunds on significantly not as described (SNAD) complaints, it would also be prudent to pay larger amounts to PayPal with a credit card to provide an additional layer of protection.

My solution to the problem is simple: I have stopped buying on ebay unless I know the seller or the item is needed as a fakes or forgery reference or as an exhibit item. Often such items can be pricy because there is a market for certain items and some buyers know exactly what they are. The last year I bought more than one item on ebay, I returned 6 out of 10 and received a cram down on the price of one item because it was damaged, but I still needed it.

If a seller is believed to engage in shill bidding using a sniping service may provide some additional protection. However, the best strategy is not to buy from such sellers. Finally, check out http://www.scads.org. While the site is dated, some of the "featured" malfeasant sellers continue to do exactly what they were reported doing in 2008 or before. Finally, there is a site that rates ebay sellers based on "voting". Some of the "recommended" sellers are also on the SCADS list. So much for third party recommendations.

Clark

There is also the situation where the seller simply disappears shortly after selling a high value item. There is no money to make a refund with because the seller withdrew it already and has abandoned the account. This happens frequently with remote foreign sellers such as located in the Ukraine, Nigeria, etc. PayPal doesn't dig into their own pockets to make things right. At least not without a major effort of enforcing them to do so.

Kevin, both yours and Don's evidence of what actually occurs is anecdotal. However, the "cartel" sellers have such a vast amount of anecdotal evidence against them that it is relatively safe to say that doing business with them is risky and dangerous.

PayPal/eBay usually side very strongly with the buyer, but can be swayed by the seller to neglect a refund. Did they provide delivery confirmation for your order but you didn't provide it for your return? That is one scenario of how a refund can be denied. The seller could deceptively tell the buyer that returning with delivery confirmation is unnecessary, but that won't change the fact that PayPal/eBay needs it to finalize your refund. The seller says that they never received the item for refund and you have no "proof" to dispute them.

Another situation arises when a buyer returns a completely different item or nothing at all in an empty envelope or package. The seller gets screwed because the buyer has "proof" with a delivery confirmation that the seller received the "original" item in the "same state" as how the seller sent it.

In general buying on ebay is mostly safe. Selling there has many risks. Avoiding and learning how to identify bad sellers is necessary for this open market. None of us have conclusive evidence of who is truly "bad" or not, but a resource like Stamp Smarter probably has a low false positive rate and is a great resource for those without the money to burn learning which seller is "good" or "bad."

Since we started discussing the "British Cartel" members on other phiatelic discussion boards (I would guess at least 4-5 years ago, maybe longer), we have had quite a few first hand reports from ebay buyers who had a difficult time with these sellers (who by the way, is now pretty conclusively believed to be all the same person, a convicted criminal who has been getting away with selling problematic material all this time). In fact, one of them is a fairly regular poster here, Winston Sinclair, who has previously told this forum about his truly bad experience. While he eventually got his money back, he had to go through fire and brimstone to get it! Maybe he will see this thread and jump in?

Not all sellers based in the UK are bad, of course, but this guy has had at least 15/20 different ebay seller names since we first started talking about his misdeeds. My best advice would be to ALWAYS click on the seller's feedback number following his seller name. That will take you to the second page, where his REAL location can be found. This seller uses several forwarding sevices here in the US, thus some of his seller names show "Item Location" to be in the US. One is (or was) in Alabama, another in MD, and recently a client who bought a fake coil from him received it from a mailing in Somerville/NJ! So once you determine that the seller is really located in the UK, for one thing, you can always ask here if a particular seller is considered one of the "cartel" sellers or not. Right now I record 11 active or partly active seller names that I would advise anyone to think twice before bidding/buying. Certainly "Buyer Beware"!

The ONLY point I was trying to make earlier...
is that you can get a refund for basically no
reason what so ever.
MISDESCRIBED = refund
PURCHASED ANOTHER = refund
CHANGED MIND = refund
WHATEVER - refund

Kevin, I detailed a few scenarios that contradict your previous and current statements. What are you thoughts?

Yes, often times a buyer can get a refund for "basically no reason what so ever." However that isn't always the case as I detailed in my post. I understand that your scenario can and has occurred, but your experience has not similarly occurred in all cases. How do you view the cases that are different than your personal experience of a few instances?