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I just received this pair, and am wondering if it is genuine. In doing a quick search, In found this post from Russ from about 4 years ago: Quote:
BEP used the same plates to produce the sheet (perf and imperf) and coil the only difference was the way they were perfed and cut. The USPOD when to single line watermarks on or about Oct 1, 1910. The BEP would hand wind coil rolls and went to a motorized coil winder. The perf 12 was not strong enough to keep from separating in this winder. The POD and BEP went to a perf 8.5 coil so that the motorized winder could be used. The Scott 385 was repaced by the Scott 390 and the Scott 386 was replaced by the Scott 391. Scoot 390 was released Dec 12, 1910 (62 days max after the watermark change) and the Scott 391 was released Dec 23, 1910. This account for the rarity of these issues.
The POD kept records of plate impressions and press dates but did not keep records of when stamps were perforated so no one knows when the first 385 or 386 were actually made. Since they were in the process of changing perfs for the new winding process they would have made as few as possible to meet demand. The EDU fot Scott 385 is/was Jan 9, 1911 and 386 is/was Dec 9, 1910.
The 1 cent and 2 cent single line watermark stamps were printed on 2 types of plates, the star plates and the "A" plates. The star plates were variable horizontal spacing with the inside 3 vertical rows spaced 2mm and the outer 7 vert rows spaced 3mm (this is where the 2mm and 3mm spacing comes from on the 1-5 cent values). The "A" plates were uniform horizontal spacing of 2.75mm. Sheet stamps from the 2.75mm and 3mm spacing were easily altered to resemble horizontal perf coils What do you think? Matt   |
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I would also agree that the perfs look suspect. They look a little large and clean. You need to gauge the holes. I would send it out, but be prepared for the negatives. |
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I believe the perfs. have been added to an imperf. pair. 7th. thru 10th. perf holes in the middle row and on the bottom row don't line-up with the rest of the perfs. in their respective rows, as I see it, as well as the holes looking too clean.  |
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"Manufactured pairs" of W/F's of this period are far more common than
the real thing... suspicion is (and always should be) the first rule
of thumb... it's always advisable to get them expertized... |
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I agree. Not that that matters. Yet, I have posted this before from a grading guide.  Notice how the holes on the left side have fibers still remaining? (And if run through the perf machine the other direction, they would be on the right side). Some of the holes in that pair have this carachteristic, but the fibers in different holes have different directions. I see them on the bottom of one, the left of another, and the far right hole seems to show them at an angle. The remaining holes have none. A perf machine of that era rolled over the paper, thus creating the image provided. On the near end of the perf pin, it cuts sharp, but on the far end there is a slight tearing action as the pin rolls out of the hole it has just perfed. -IBFS |
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And even the sharp side of genuine perfs do not have as sharply cut edges as the fake perfs do, perforating wheels were sharp, but not SHARP.
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Fakes are "far more common" does not even begin to tell the story. VASTLY more common is more like it. Genuine perf 12 coils are really pretty scarce, reperforated imperfs and trimmed perforated examples are a flood on the market. |
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I performed an srail test and the perfs look non-genuine to me. In the image below, the top perfs are overlaid on the middle and bottom perfs. The middle perfs are overlaid the top perfs. I see circles transitioning to ovals and inconsistency in hole size. I Brake For Stamps, revcollector, and others mention other inconsistencies. It seems that your coil pair has been faked, but we are not expertizers. A $5 Bill Weiss identification or the other inexpensive identification services can give you a more definitive opinion. Maybe they'll chime in to give you a more definitive answer.  |
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Ryan = HDNAC = DNA = HDC = Hysterical DNA Collector = Historical DNA Collector = me who just loves stamps :) |
| Edited by Historical DNA Collector - 03/14/2015 9:19 pm |
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Although I do not expertize these issues, I have seen a lot of them and a lot of fakes. While I agree that showing it to Bill is a good idea, the fact that they match using the srail test proves nothing on this case. Since they are fakes created by the same device they should match. |
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They look oblong because each side of perfs averages a little more than 50% of the perf holes, so they are larger than real perfs would be. |
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wert/Robert, to me your image showing parallel lines is further evidence that the perforations are unoriginal. Some variation is normal. The variation shown is not normal at all and indicates fake perforations. The perforations of the top versus the middle versus the bottom are not consistent at all. Uneven spacing is considered normal for genuine stamps, but these perforations are not consistent across any of the three perforated edges. |
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Ryan = HDNAC = DNA = HDC = Hysterical DNA Collector = Historical DNA Collector = me who just loves stamps :) |
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I feel as though we're over-analyzing this. Just looking at the center perfs, it's obvious that they're out of alignment with each other. Isn't that enough evidence that they're fake?  |
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No, that can sometimes happen. Pins get bent, pins get broken, it's not at all impossible to have a few misaligned pins. |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,289 |
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Posted 03/14/2015 2:40 pm
