#17 Block

Had this block of #17 on approval recently. The dealer and I couldn't agree on a price. The block is completely sound save for two very short horizontal scissor cuts between each vertical pair. If you were spending your hard earned money on it, what would you pay for it? This block also illustrates the lack of guide dots on bottom row stamps from Plate 1 if you have followed the other #17 thread.

A fairly loaded question Winston, because it would depend (as Mr Clinton so famously pointed out!) on a couple of things. I mean, if you were a Specialist in this issue and had not yet acquired a used block, you might be much more aggressive in your price than if you are merely an interested, but not desperate, buyer. I personally (even though it's to be expected, I suppose) don't like the obtrusive/heavy cancels, so I probably wouldn't want to buy it for any price, but if that didn't bother me, I would probably be willing to pay 25%/35% of Scott value. But remember, I think like a former auction house so tend to estimate values a bit low. I will be interested to hear what you felt was acceptable!

Thanks, Bill. I have no idea what the current SCV is for a block.

Cat was $5500 in 2013, it probably hasn't changed significantly. Heavy cancel, touches on one stamp, $1800-$2000 is about it. Not all that attractive because of the cancel.

If the block has completely sound condition but for the scizzor cuts in the edge margins between stamps, I consider this a sound block, since the cuts don't touch the stamp designs. As far as centering, three of four have VF or better margins, the upper right may be touching on the right edge, so F or F-VF. The cancels are a bit heavy, without clear definition, so a bit of a detraction.

Overall, a scarce and sound block with 3 out of 4 stamps with VF margins, some minor visual detractions.

As a dealer, I would pay maybe 20-25% of cat, and as a collector, depending, as Bill mentions, on level of need/want, would probably pay 40-60% of cat.

Ducking and covering now...

2009 SCV is also $5500, so certainly no change from 2009-13. This is a little off topic but, is there no change in cat value because none sold in that period of time?
Then my question would be, is it more valuable due to scarcity of sales availability, not scarcity of known copies?

Sorry sinclair2010, you are always so helpful, especially with my A10 questions. Then when you pose a question, all I do is ask another.

Well......maybe! Specialized items such as a used #17 block may not come on the market much or the Editors may not be aware of it if they do. Or, as you suggest, it could also be from market stagnation.

And the answer your second question, which is really a great question by the way, is that the catalog price is intended to reflect real market sales, not scarcity of the item. There are many very scarce/rare items in the catalog that are valued under $1,000., but because the market demand/sales of these items are scant, the result is seemingly-low prices. A good example I can think of quickly is the "Specimen" overprints where there are quite a few priced below $1,000. that you couldn't buy if you were wiling to pay 10X that amount!

Take a look at this link - may help

Oh, thanks for the info on my #17 Yep 47R1

http://www.usphila.com/us/stamp/pri...tt-17-page-1

Scott 2015 blk/4 still $5500

"THE 12-CENT 1851 ISSUE IS EXTREMELY RARE IN SOUND ATTRACTIVE BLOCKS". That is important information, I think. So the block Sinclair shows us is basically sound but (to me) relatively unattractive. I'm sticking with my original valuation.

At auction, I'd expect a block like that (if sound) to hammer for no more than $1,000-$1,500. BTW, Siegel has a number of used Scott 17 blocks that you can compare via their PowerSearch.

http://www.siegelauctions.com/lot_lkp.php

Check out the sound, certified, and IMO more attractive block (sale 1050, lot 123.) That one hammered for $1,200 in 2013.

P.S. FWIW, I see lots of "red flags" on the block you posted & if someone had sent me that scan, I wouldn't even have asked to see it in person. Looks washed out (cleaned?) with a very questionable area in the UR stamp (from the lightened area in the medallion left of the neck all the way to the right margin - repaired?) with possibly fake/added cancels.

Maybe a good thing you didn't reach agreement on a price for that guy...

I agree - the upper/right stamp looks chemically cleaned or damaged.

The 12c stamp has already been plated so large multiples are not going to be in high demand. I picked up a nice pair of these on a piece for about 20% of Scott cat thinking I could sell for a profit and was disappointed to find out that's about all I could sell it for. I would have expected a little better % for a block of 4 but after looking at prices realized, I would have to say your block would only fetch ~10% (or possibly less due to the upper right stamp).

Brian

I looked over the block without reading any of the other responses in the thread.

I know enough about this issue to get me into trouble but the stamps at UR and LR look odd to me, especially around Washington's right eye area. I don't think this is a fake, but I suspect it has been cleaned - admittedly mostly a SWAG though.

As for SCV, it appears unchanged for several yeas at an italicized $5500. This item does appeal to me though, as I find myself in a position of buying "entry-level" material like this.

I would point out my concerns and throw out an initial $800 offer and would bargain up to $1100 but nothing higher.

sinclair2010

Let me add my two cents worth into the mix.

The image on your post, if this the image taken from another photo or an image taken from the block itself?

Also, I always want to examine the reverse side, suppose you did not make a copy of the reverse, before you sent it back.

Dave

sinclair2010, just out of curiosity, would you mind divulging which dealer sent you that block on consignment?

Thanks to everybody for there responses. Keep them coming until tonight or tomorrow night.

I don't have an image of the back and I don't recall exactly what it looked like. I am extremely fussy so if there was anything noteworthy I would remember.

At this point I am not going to say who the dealer is.

Did you dip it? My suspected alteration(s) would have stood out in fluid (as well as under longwave UV light.)

To be honest, I'd be surprised if this dipped clean & looked good under UV.

P.S. If you're reluctant to reveal the company's/dealer's name in a public forum, feel free to PM it to me.