Indentification... #10 Or #11

I'm getting more and more request for early issues, but my knowledge is not keeping up with demand. So it's baptism by fire, so to speak. I picked up these at a recent auction (part of a larger lot). I suspect there is a #10 here. From what I can read, it comes down to color. However for example, both issues have a color of orange-red. How can you tell the difference.

Thank you in advance.



Better images here: http://larrysbasement.com/10or11

Scott #10 is described as orange-brown and Scott #11 is described as dull red.

Scott #10 is very orange appearance in color ans tends to be very bright too. Scott #11 is more red in appearance. If you have copy of Scott #224, then Scott #11 is more like the color of ink used for Scott #224. It's not a perfect match, but #11 is darker in appearance.

Also, the impressions of Scott #10 are sharper in detail and came from earlier versions of the printing plates before there was much plate wear. Scott #11 came from later printings and the printing plates show some wear. Scott #11 isn't as crisp appearing.

Using a magnifier, watch for recutting too. Scott #10A and #11A have the inner frame lines recut. Scott #10 and #11 are not recut.

About 5% of this design's population is Scott #10 or #10A and 95% is Scott #11 or #11A.

Scott #10 and #11 have been extensively plated too. The bible is "The 3 cent Stamp of the United States 1851-1857 Issue" by Dr. Carroll Chase. Subsequent work has updated some of Dr. Chase's information, but his book is still largely complete.

Margins on these stamps are very small. If you see a pair of these stamps, you'll understand why. There was almost no space between the stamps. Cutting them apart with scissors was not exact. Wide margins on these issues are difficult to find.

Regards,
Stampalotapus

Check out this link for "The 3 cent Stamp of the United States 1851-1857 Issue" by Dr. Carroll Chase...

http://www.uspcs.org/resource-cente...nic-library/

Regards,
Stampalotapus

Yeah, I already read this on someone else website (verbatim). I don't think it was yours. I am looking for someone's knowledgeable opinion on these 7 stamps. Thanks.

To expand on Stampalotapus, check out the USPCS site which has some great info on this series: http://www.uspcs.org/the-1851-1860-...51-3c-issue/

Most pertinent is: http://www.uspcs.org/the-1851-1860-...-10-and-10a/

On my monitor across the Interwebs, your #1 looks like it could be orange brown, but it also looks like it has some sulfuretting which is not common on #10(A). Your scan isn't detailed enough for us to see the #10(A)'s sharper detail nor look for retouching which would confirm that it is from one of the few plates that were used to print it.

Thanks. I was worried with the viewing of the scan. I'm limited to 200kb file size. I went ahead and posted the pictures here: http://larrysbasement.com/10or11/

Much better view.

Larry the issue isn't color at all. #10 vs #11 is now based on the plate. #10 came from Plate 1e (early) only. #10A comes from plates 1i (intermediate), 2e, 5e and 0. So if a stamp looks orange brown it also needs to be plated.

I don't plate this issue...1c 1857 only, but if I was to make an educated guess, the 2nd stamp is the darkest, richest impression, and it doesn't appear to me that the upper right diamond block is gouged in a recut. I'm guessing the 2nd one is 10A, and the others are not....

Just a SWAG....but Winston Sinclair will let you know for sure when he sees this....thanks! Hope this is helpful...Ray

Number 7 might be a 10 or 10A, but these stamps need certificates, and are plated by the expertizing agency, to be sure. Stamps 1-6 look like 11/11A, but again need to be certified/plated to be sure. I would use Bill Weiss for certifying these lower cost items.

Hard to tell from the photo, but my guess is that # 7 appears to have a better printing impression then all the rest and the color appears right for a 10.

Possibly a better photo can shed more light on this.

Regards,
Stampalotapus

Larry, I read you want to sell these. The only way to make sure you know what you have is to have these expertized by someone who can have hands on. The one person who comes to mind would be Bill Weiss, a member of this forum. He is great and at the same time affordable!

Peter

1,2,5,6 are 11A, 3 & 4 are 11. 7 is iffy. Could be a 10A or 11A. 11s have sharp impressions on early printings just like early impressions of 10s, so it does need plating to be sure. As Ray stated, Winston would probably know by looking at the larger scan.

Yes, I agree sinclair2010 (Winston) is super helpful!

Thank you for everyone's help thus far... It certainly has become a learning experience.

The finest site that has explained plating in more detail is: http://www.uspcs.org/the-1851-1860-...51-3c-issue/

According to Scott's Specialize catalogue..Only one example of the 10a is recorded. it is Printed on both sides..

That would be 10Ab