How The Shill Works With Our British Friends

iris..

There have been many discussions on SCF about selling cartels, and the GB cartel in particular. I doubt if anyone doesn't care about shill bidding, or approves of it. I don't think that you should draw that conclusion simply because others demur from your analysis.

Geoff

I think that may be the OP's point - if you see a "buyer" who keeps winning auctions but gets no feedback, this raises a red flag.

I guess I just don't understand the focus on shill bidding when fakes are rampant on ebay. No one ever bids more than they're willing to pay with shill bidding (unless they're stupid) but with fakes people are flat out screwed every time. Shill bidding does no long term damage to the hobby whatsoever, fakes are completely destroying it. Overall people aren't leaving ebay due to shill bidding, it's a lot more because of fakes. Yet I see a whole lot more commotion about shill bidding.

Makes no sense whatsoever to me. There are certainly bigger fish to fry than shill bidding, especially since you're never going to prove it. I'd love to see someone take an initiative against fake stamps.

I believe that a significant part of the anger against shilling is that we all want that "got it for a steal" feeling. There's not much crappier than seeing an item sit there at the opening bid for 6.75 days and then get shilled up to one's high bid. Sure, a fair price was still paid, but HONESTLY... what is more satisfying, paying $5 for an item you want, or paying $45.67 for it????

The OP addresses "high end stamps which appear to sell." Without pointing at any specific seller(s), this type of bogus transaction is money laundering. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

I guess I am one of those whom irisgarden would include in the "have no idea what I'm talking about" group. The onus is not on me to understand, but on you to clearly express your issue. Your OP comes out against shill bidding, but in a follow-up, you say that you aren't affected by shilling because you always snipe. I also do not see anyone on this thread saying anything close to shill bidding being acceptable or imaginary!

All one needs to do is type the word cartel into the search bar of this forum, there are many threads you will find, draw your own conclusions.

Simply not true.




Yes, fakes (and undisclosed faults) are a bigger issue.

Both methods of bidding mentioned are best practice. Either set your high bid and let it go, or bid max at the last minute. I prefer the last minute approach. I have set my max bid and saw it grow to just under my max bid. I often wonder if the buyer was giving the bid amounts to someone with another account to bid it up. Not sure if the seller would even know what the max bid would be though. Thanks to all the honest sellers that offer legit stamps at fair pricing, with competitive auctions. I will support that business. Sorry to say it has become" let the buyer beware" for ebay.

Just because the bid creeps up over time does NOT necessarily mean there is anything untoward going on by the seller. It could be another bidder or bidders trying to find your max.

The seller does not know anyones max bid.

One explanation for why a supposed "shill" bidder ends their bidding at a price close to your max is because of similar evaluations. You're both on the same auction site, seeing the same quality of condition, have seen what similar listings have sold for previously, and many other unseen factors.

If you accuse anyone of a crime or misconduct(by name...or in this case, handle) without proof, you may in fact be committing a crime. Even if not, you surely open yourself to legal action, should the offended party decide pursuing it would be worth the trouble. You may be right, but without proof, you can be held liable for the accusation. In either case, it makes more sense to leave names out...

The law of defamation--a civil tort, not a crime--is a lot more nuanced than that.

Truth is a defense, so if mint_stamps (whomever that is) thinks her reputation has been harmed by a comment on this site that allegedly misstates a fact, which would require someone else to know her real name and that her handle is mint_stamps, then she had better be ready for a deposition, document production and interrogatories that would investigate all past transactions looking for evidence of actual misconduct. In other words, unless your house is completely in order, you are a fool to sue for defamation.

Nonsense. Fraudulent sellers and scamming buyers are outed by ebay userID every day on collectibles message boards across the Interwebz, and have been for over a decade. Scare tactics trying to intimidate people into not naming names do no one any good.

Heck, look at the Stamp Smarter website. It's primary purpose is to warn buyers about unscrupulous sellers.

I didn't say that you couldn't get away with it...obviously that happens every day. What I said was that if the offended party decides that they want to take action and if you have no proof, you could be liable for anything you say on a public forum.

And one could get flattened by a runaway steamroller while crossing the street this afternoon. The odds are tiny.

As previously mentioned, truth is an absolute defense. The number of cases of people being sued for discussions on Internet message boards is miniscule. There are infinitely more probable things in life to worry about.

I've run a music-related message board for almost 15 years now. I've been threatened with lawsuits for posting negative album reviews, by bands and record labels, and for reporting fraudulent behavior on the part of record labels and ebay sellers. Without exception, when push came to shove, it was all bluster and intimidation tactics. When confronted by an adamant "cease and desist" email (which anyone can write), I've responded "Sure, I'll be happy to redact the offending material... upon receipt of a formal demand letter on the letterhead of a law firm in good standing, sent certified mail." Do you know how many entities actually followed through? NONE. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The Internet is full of "keyboard commandos", usually the very people who are engaging in deceptive acts, trying to intimidate others from reporting the truth.

Sorry, not gonna capitulate to those tactics, nor attempts to frighten people into not discussing issues that should be discussed. That may not be your intent, but that's how it reads. Any time I see attempts or recommendations to stifle discussion, my hackles come up.