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Prexies & Forgeries

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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 04/22/2009   8:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add laswabbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
We've had recent posts about Prexies and forgeries, so I thought I'd throw in a tidbit about some forged Prexies.

A significant number of forgeries of U.S. 807 began appearing in and around the Bronx in 1949. They were being marketed to merchants in sheets of 100 for for $1 a sheet by the Barra brothers who got them "wholesale" from the Malone Gang. They have become known as the Barras-Bronx forgeries. At least 8 million copies were eventually destroyed by the Secret Service. It is unknown how many were actually used as postage, but by all accounts they were quite good forgeries.

Here is a copy of an 807 error:

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Edited by laswabbie - 04/22/2009 8:33 pm

Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1755 Posts
Posted 04/22/2009   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add David Giles to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
LaSwabbie:

Timely topic. I was lotting a U.S. collection at Sparks-Auctions to-day, and there was an obvious counterfeit of the $5 stamp from the 1954 Liberty series.

David
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   05:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rohumpy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw the forgery for sale recently(can't recall where) Is it legal to own a copy of the forgery?
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United States
6756 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is legal to own and also legal to sell a forgery (provided of course, you have stated clearly that it is a forgery). There are a small number of collectors that actively pursue forgeries.

Ironically, there are even a few forgeries (e.g., a few by Sperati) that are actually more valuable than the genuine stamp!
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Philippines
1132 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add johnstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
some of these mafia guys/gangs must be collectors to think of a ploy like this
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stefanib123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Who's the "Malone gang"? Were they Mafia?

How can you tell this certain type of fake?
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United States
4788 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   1:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kirks to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I have a difficult time understanding WHY people forge postage stamps?

If they're forging a rare stamp of high value, I get that part. But I mean why counterfeit a 3c postage stamp. Seems like a lot of work for a small reward.

Years ago, I worked in retail and we never worried about counterfeit currency in denominations under $50 -- it just wasn't worth the effort to fake the small bills. Of course, computers and color laser printers have changed that now.

Anyway, good info swabbie.

Thanks, KirkS
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   1:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If they're forging a rare stamp of high value, I get that part. But I mean why counterfeit a 3c postage stamp. Seems like a lot of work for a small reward.

That's a good point, but there's an explanation.

Some forge for fun, some forge for profit, some forge to understand the techniques used by other forgers (thereby improving their own forgery detection skills), some forge because there are those who would like the real rarities but can't afford them.

Forging a rare stamp has always been a high-risk venture, because the rare stamp will attract the attention of experts and law enforcement. Make even just one, and you attract a crowd. Consider Peter Winter's "discovery" of another British Guiana 1c magenta.

If they were just forging a single 3c postage stamp, then yes, it is silly. But most forgers/counterfeiters that go this route are banking on printing them in large quantities and using common stamps. Most people don't pay attention to whether or not a common stamp is real or counterfeit, but they are more likely to notice fake currency. 8 million copies of the 3c Jefferson can get the counterfeiters $80,000 on the black market. Considering that billions of the genuine stamp were printed, it's a drop in the bucket. The quality is sufficient that the average consumer cannot tell. The common mistake that counterfeiters make is that they actually sell them way too cheaply, which almost automatically raises some red flags. Selling counterfeits at 33% face value may sound typical, but that's actually what attracts attention.

That was back then. Even though we have a lot of computer and color printing equipment available at the consumer level, it's actually a lot harder to counterfeit modern stamps without getting caught. There's a very simple reason for this. All first-class US postage stamps have been tagged since the 1960s so they luminesce under short wavelength UV light. That's how the sorting equipment detects whether or not there is a stamp on the envelope. 99.999% of counterfeits of modern US stamps lack the proper luminescence, so they get kicked out by the sorters and the postal worker has to hand-cancel/sort them. That's why many counterfeiters of modern US stamps get caught within a few months.
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United States
2972 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   1:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperdude to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen counterfeit $1.00's. I've also worked retail and banking. Usually, it is $20.00's though. Now, of course, they are trying to counterfeit the Forever Liberty stamps. That was a given and inevitable.
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You also have to keep in mind that saving $2 on a sheet of 100 was big money to a lot of people in those post-war days.

I'm not sure who or what the Malone gang was. Maybe they were part of Bugsy Malone's enterprise.
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4788 Posts
Posted 04/23/2009   3:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kirks to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Good points, khj.

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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 04/24/2009   09:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stefanib123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamperdude, in the April 27 issue of Linns, there's an article about the forever Liberty stamp has been counterfeited. They were sold on ebay, and said they were high-quality and a regular person wouldn't be able to tell they were fakes.

Here's the link to the article:

http://editions.amospublishing.com/...x?d=20090427
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
Posted 04/24/2009   09:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stefanib123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that link just takes you to the main page, you must not be able to link the magazines, where they have to be suscribed to.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 04/24/2009   2:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those forever stamp counterfeits were intended to fool the buyer, not the post office. The article mentions my point about absence of tagging. The post office sorting machines would have kicked it out immediately.

It's easier to fool people by counterfeiting stamps than money, because most non-collectors won't notice fake stamps, whereas fake money is more likely noticed by the average person.

Either way, it's an annoyance. While I enjoy examining and detecting forgeries/fakes, if I had the choice, I would rather they not exist.
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Posted 04/24/2009   6:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kirks to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
khj: if I had the choice, I would rather they not exist


If all the fakes and forgeries vanished instantly, I wonder how many collectors would find new spaces on their album pages
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 04/24/2009   9:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kirk, I believe the answer to your question is - A LOT!
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