Scott #8?? Is This Worth Getting Certified?

I am not a stamp dealer. I don't sell stamps, only collect. This stamp I found among approximately 10 or so Scott #7s and 9s (mostly) in a stock book in my house. I want to put it in my album as scott #8. The spot is empty and needs a stamp. Is there any chance it is a recut 9 with just the top outer line missing. I would love if anyone can save me 50$ or more to certify by assuring me it is #8?

There is a step off on bottom margin (perhaps tiniest of tear but almost unnoticeable)

any comment on the cancel as well??? It looks strange to me.

=snif= ...I wish Bill Weiss were here. He'd know what to say about this one.

I think the pen cancel was made with water soluble ink and probably got wet when something was lying on top of it.

Welcome to the forum rgstamp!


Happy New Year? Bah Humbug.


-IBFS

Your stamp is likely a #8 but I can't guarantee it and there may not be anybody who can. There is a good chance that this is position 28R4 which, as far as I know, has not been identified and studied to the extent required to identify type by plating alone. It would be helpful if the bottom wasn't cut off. 28R4 needs to be identified and studied to find out what type or types the position produced.

we have people that know more about these things, wait till tommarow and I'm sure one will be on.

sinclair2010,

thanks for 28R4 plating--- I researched 28R4 by searching on internet and this position seems to be possibly correct. It appears to match plate 4, C relief, row 3-- it matches well, especially extra break at top between the A and G.. all the ornaments at top also matchup perfect with c relief type 3 stamps from plate 4, so I am confident it is a type III. I guess it could be a IIIa, but from my standpoint, it fits nicely into the scott# 8 in my album.

it found a home!

The gap needs to be at least 2mm to be considered an 8. Anything less and it's 8A. I suspect this will qualify as an 8, but measure the gap if you can.

It isn't that simple. You first need to know what type or types the position normally produced. The C-relief, as it existed on the transfer roll, was a Type IIIa. The break at bottom on C-relief positions was created by short transfer, plate burnishing, plate wear or some combination of the three.

You're right I was reading something recently about this and I was confused. The 2mm gap is for a specific rare plate. I was incorrect.

Rg- if you don't want to pay for a cert then you can always submit your 1c 1851 to Richard DoPorto at the 1c Franklin plating archive. His certificates are $16 and they can usually plate your stamp and at the very least give you the type and plate number. His certs are well accepted and he is recognized as an expert on the 1c Franklin in the philatelic hobby.
[url]http://www.slingshotvenus.com/FranklinArchive/frnkln_archv_Main.html/[url]
Hope this helps, and good luck on the Type III, Ray

I thank you all for your help-- Ray.mac, I have used that web site to help research plate 4, c relief, for this particular stamp... the website is very helpful! It appears to be best site I could find for the 1 cent Franklin and I may consider submitting it, especially if it is helpful to the researching of the positions.

Just an update...I returned to studying this stamp recently. Sinclair suggested last year it could be 28R4 (IIIa vs. III. Neinken has this position as a IIIa) but he wasn't sure as this position is poorly studied with few, if any plate marks.

I recently re-reviewed Doporto website (Think it has been updated) and did some additional research into this stamp (this was my 1st post ever I believe at SCF).

Here is what I learned: This is stamp is position 30R4. It is type III, not IIIa, (I'm very happy as cv #8 type III in Scott 2010 is 1750$ with pen cancel vs type IIIa #8a which is 600$ with pen). With normal (non-pen) cancel they are worth double!.. too bad for that.

There is a prominent dot in Franklin's head/hair. Plating marks are inconsistent per most other copies of 30R4 at PF, but the upper line with break, and defect in this line between A and G of Postage and over S is very consistent. So is the mark in Franklin's head!, which I missed until recently.

Regardless Neinken initially thought this was 68R4, but then it was changed (diagrams are wrong in Neinken for 68R4 and 30R4). It is now considered 30R4, Scott 8 type III.

Nice, rg. I'm sorry I somehow missed this thread when it first started. It pays to look your 7's and 9's over closely, especially when they come in bulk lots. I once found a #6 in a lot of second-quality 9's.

I checked out Doporto's site for the position in question, and you are clearly correct. Your stamp does appear to be 30R4.

As an aside, it looks like Dick Celler did a lot of study of this position in order to help correct the plating. Good to know.