Tracking Your Collection Redux

there was a thread a month or so ago on tracking your collection. What I was curious about and why I started a separate thread - was where do you all get the list of stamps to start a spreadsheet to begin with. I collect US singles (and cards, and blocks and FDC and...) and Israel tabbed singles. What I've recently wanted to do is get this on soft-copy. This could also be handy should anything happened to my collection - to be able to show the insurance company something.

I don't think I need any fancy programs for tracking, just a simple list with a catalog number, maybe the year, and description. do those kinds of lists exist either here on the forum or elsewhere?

I've recently joined the coin community as I restart up my interest there. And I thought getting into this forum would also be a good idea as I look at my whole collecting habits

I don't really concentrate on U.S. stamps, but some collectors I know use the Postal Service Guide to U.S. Stamps and mark up their copy with their collection. It is pretty inexpensive on the USPS website, and used copies are pennies, and good enough if you aren't collecting up through current issues.

Welcome.

As catalog numbers and other details are heavily copyrighted, I think the answer to this is pretty obvious. Making such lists publicly downloadable would be copyright infringement and big troubles before You could say "butIdidntmeanit". LOL

interesting. So when folks use catalog numbers on their adverts or ebay, they are violating copyrights. I never see a copyright notation on these. So if someone has a list of these catalog numbers they are essentially breaking copyright laws. I guess I really didn't realize that.

I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I would think most of these would fall under "personal use" or "fair use" clauses. But that said, I know some dealers have applied special permit from catalog publishers to produce large scale catalog-based listings.

The problem with your original question is not that you would be "using the copyrighted data", but the fact that you are asking / would become involved into "redistributing copyrighted data".

An example might help...You buy a book from bookstore. You can make any number of photocopies of it to your personal use/backup, and it is fine. But the minute you start distributing those copies (for free or for charge), you'll very likely break copyright legislation.

Same story with stamps lists build with excel etc. You can build/own your personal inventory and use catalog numbers (and every other copyrighted details you wish), but distributing them (at least publicly) would be something I would be very,very cautious.

About 10-12 years ago, there was a fellow who put 76 pages of Scott numbers on the web on his site, fantastic stuff for sorting, but he was forced to take it off when Scott issued a cease and desist.

Here is one of those pages

fair enough. I wasn't looking to break any laws. But I guess I still wonder about people who put the Scott # on their ebay listing then. Because that is not for personal use and is in fact a commercial use. I guess Scott et al, don't care about those 1000's of listings that use their catalog numbers illegally but would worry about a guy who posts a web site of his stampps with their numbers. Seems to me that this is a more positive 'advertising' of their numbers than some using it for commercial purposes as their means of identification.

But, I'm off building my lists.....

It is NOT a copyright violation to use Scott catalog numbers to identify and list your stamps in an auction, because Scott has specifically granted permission to do so. At the bottom of the Table of Contents in the Scott catalog, they have a section on what is permitted.

Scott has a vested interest in allowing sellers/buyers to utilize Scott catalog numbers in sales. As you pointed out, it promotes their own catalog sales.

However, you are NOT permitted to publish (in print or online), a comprehensive listing of Scott catalog numbers with their corresponding stamp illustration (as shown in the above picture earlier in the thread) unless you have a licensing agreement with Scott. Such listings have the opposite effect of discouraging people from buying the Scott catalog to help them ID stamps. Why pay for an illustrated catalog listing when you can get a free one? As much as I disagree with Scott on plenty of other issues, I would say they do have a right/responsibility to protect their numbering system and catalog sales. My opinion.

k

KHJ - I concur.

When you've been in the position of having your intellectual property used without your permission (or royalties), it makes you think twice about downloading other people's materials without paying.

KirkS

Well catalogue numbers are a grey area - how about philatelic resources sites like this for New Hebrides:

http://ro-klinger.de/NH/1908g.htm (frame from this site: http://ro-klinger.de/NH )

Notice that Scott got to him, while he still has Michel, Yvert and Gibbons numbers!

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Fixed hyperlink

And that's where I part ways with Scott. If Scott wants to make inroads into Europe/Asia, they need to bite the bullet and encourage cross-reference sites. The problem is that Scott does not issue many country-specific catalogs. This is where the European catalog makers take Scott to the cleaners. Bottom line, sites like that (which are numerous) make Scott look ludicrous. This is a problem of Scott's own making. Amos continues to consolidate the product line instead of a focused streamlining and rapid movement into the internet age.

Instead of wasting resources seeking out these sites and getting their lawyers to go after them, Scott needs to get with the internet age and start putting up their own listings online. Stanley Gibbons already does it (although they sell stamps, so that helps their cause).

Why doesn't Amos combine a simple online catalog with their "Zillions of Stamps" sales site? It's a perfect match, and it's the same company! Simple reason: a big part of Scott/Amos are stuck in their old ways.

OK. I get the whole idea of recreating their catalog but that was not what I was trying to do. I just wanted a list of numbers and descriptions (which probably belong to the issuing postal authority). I had no intention of putting pictures, just a check list. I would be happy to buy that from Scott but they don't sell it that I can find. How is this any different than when someone posts a want list? I suppose the comprehensive nature could be an issue but anyone who wanted the list that I created for my collection certainly couldn't use it as a catalog, they would need the Scott catalog (or whichever one) to see what stamp was what.

You can freely create such a list for your own use. You just can't distribute it. It is the act of assigning the particular numbers to the particular stamp that Scott claims an interest in...the picture part is irrelevant.

As an (unrelated) example, you cannot copyright a list of ingredients in a recipe; when you write out a description of how to make something, or you collect the recipes in a volume, then you can get a copyright. "2c red" probably isn't copyrightable. Assembling the whole thing and assigning numbers, is.

There are plenty of examples of Scott-unique numbering in the front of the book, so you can't just say, "I'm only numbering them the way they came out from the USPOD/USPS" because that wouldn't be the case. When you get to the back of the book, Scott's system is unique in its lettering/numbering. C1 isn't the first U.S. airmail, so there is no rationale for calling that stamp C1 except that Scott says so.

Hope that is somewhat helpful. Again, do whatever makes sense to you in the privacy of your own home.

Collin

Scott does not permit unlicensed and open-ended distribution of such a list because they used to sell a checklist/booklet as you have described. In fact, they used to produce this type of checklist for many many countries; discontinued sometime in the 1990's, I think. I used to have a few when they cleared them out, something like 3 for $1.

I do not know if they still produce the US checklist. However, they do produce a US pocket color catalog that has a cover list price of $20.

My complaint remains the same: why doesn't Scott produce an online version of this that can printed by the user for a nominal fee? Amos needs to fully wake up and smell the internet age. Forget about copyright infringements by small parties. There are plenty of people out there willing to respect copyright rules and purchase items from Scott. Just make it easily accessible and drop the price a bunch to reflect the huge reduction in publishing/inventory costs, instead of shaving an insulting $5 or so off the price!

Weavus - when you get your ten posts and can email members give me a shout. I probably have something that will help you get started.

Be careful LaSwabbie, the Catalogue Police could be "Lurking" here!