Help With Berlin Postmark Date On Stamped Cover

Hi Everyone. I have this Stamped Cover



And I need help with the postmark date. The Stamp itself is Scott#31 (1875-77) but theres alot of different numbers on the postmark and I need help trying to figure out which ones are the date. Heres a close-up of the postmark.


Also, if there's anyone familiar with this marking which is on the back of the cover I could "definately" use some help. I can't speak or read German (The only German I know how to read is on the label of a good German Beer) so any help would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks in advance for any help.
Lucky

I think it is May 7, 1880, based on the convention of the date coming before the month.

Now lets sit back and wait for someone who knows for sure.

Collin

Collin is correct 5/7/1880

The mark on the back shows the date of receipt in the town of Graefenhainichen, Germany, which according to Google Maps is 138km from Berlin. It was received the same day it was posted...pretty good for 1880.

At least that is how I read it.

Hope this helps. (Hope its right.)

Collin

Fast forward to 2010... Two weeks later...

Hi Folks.....


Not to confuse the issue.......but the date would be read as......7 May 1880.....all of Europe denote dates this way and I believe most colonies of European countries.

We Americans just can't seem to do it the European way. No meters and dates written backwards.

I've had to get used to the European convention with my German and Israel collections. It's still hard, but I'm getting better at it - even at my advanced age.

BTW - to the SCF family and you are, indeed, Lucky to have found us. Get it?

Just to belabor the point further, the month is sometimes represented by a Roman numeral...watch out for the Roman numeral II (February) vs. the Arabic numeral 11 (November).

Collin

If it was easy, it'd be no fun!

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Greetings All

I have a couple of questions to add about this postmark if I may?

Would the number at the top of the cancellation be a post office number? Also, the number '7 - 8 V' at the bottom of the cancellation - - is that a district number??

I have a lot of similar cancellations and can get confused (which isn't hard to do :( lately )

Chimo

Bujutsu

Chimo.....


I think the 33 is a district/PO number and the 7-8 is the time but I'm not sure if it means AM or PM.......maybe someone here more familiar with the area could confirm this.......or correct me.

If the 7-8 is indeed the time it would AM. Germany is on the 24 hour clock, or as some of us would call it military time.

John

I'll be interested to see the answer to this...the bottom of a cds seems like a trickier spot to put a changing value like time, but I don't know that to be true. I'm trying to think of an example where that happens...

Collin

Hello NorthState......


Welcome to the club.


John......do you think Germany was using military time in 1880 ?

I thought about that after I posted the reply and I think they probably were using that system then but I'm not certain. I think there's actually some doubt as to whether or not that would represent the time. As Collin said the outer ring of a CDS would be a bit of a tricky place to put it.

John

It is, in fact, the time. 7-8v, where v=vormittag, or a.m. to us.

So, the letter got an early start, which probably helped it make it the 138km or so on the same day.

Collin