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Same design ; different print process or printer  
 

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Valued Member
United States
293 Posts
Posted 01/08/2012   09:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sirruspoe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello All. Litho and James here are those stamps. I hope I got them clear enough for you guys to view.








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Australia
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Posted 01/08/2012   5:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As an example of the difference a change in printer can make, Barwani State in India is ideal.

Here is the first (catalogue-listed, but not actual first) Anna stamp,



printed by the Ranjit Printing Press at Barwani. Really, quite a creditable effort for a printer in a little backwater town in India around 1920, which probably normally only printed government forms.

Getting the right paper to print on, though, can make an enormous difference. In 1927, they tried cutting costs with what looks and feels like inexpensive toilet paper. The results, well ...



Finally, in the 1930s, it was decided to hand over printing to the Times of India Press in Bombay - a very big commercial printer, and also printer of a major English-language daily newspaper. The change was quite dramatic:



Though I still much prefer the good old Ranjit Press days
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Canada
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Posted 01/08/2012   7:34 pm  Show Profile Check jamesw's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I hope I got them clear enough for you guys to view.


Certainly better than I could do with what I had, sirruspoe.
Thanks.
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Australia
426 Posts
Posted 01/08/2012   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterethio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Two of the four Peruvian stamps. These ones printed by 'Harrison and Sons Ltd' and 'Thomas de La Rue & Co Ltd'



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Edited by peterethio - 01/08/2012 9:18 pm
Valued Member
Australia
426 Posts
Posted 01/08/2012   9:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterethio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Two stamps from Madagascar printed using different processes giving a uniform and splodgy background, along with their overprints.













Can you tell anything about the printing processes or do you need larger scans?

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Posted 01/08/2012   9:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
peterethio, from what I can see from your scans I would guess
that the first and third were printed lithography and the second
and last via photogravure.

Perhaps you could post a sharper scan?
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Australia
426 Posts
Posted 01/09/2012   06:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterethio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've uploaded the largest images I can. See if this helps to show the differences in printing. I'd be most interested in the reasons for your conclusions too. The name of the designer at the bottom of the stamp is considerably different at this resolution.





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Edited by peterethio - 01/09/2012 06:19 am
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Posted 01/09/2012   2:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The lower one is definitely photogravure as is obvious from the
mottled effect on the blue and red shield areas and looking at the
jagged lettering of the imprint, the frame, country's name etc.


Compare this to the top offset/litho example with solid colours and lines.

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Australia
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Posted 01/10/2012   01:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add peterethio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Lithograving, this information is very useful. I will include it in my album with the stamps.
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Canada
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Posted 01/11/2012   7:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
they tried cutting costs with what looks and feels like inexpensive toilet paper. The results, well ...



Would that make them easy to wash/soak off the envelopes?
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Posted 01/12/2012   10:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 10Pf and 12Pf from the Hitler definitives were first
issued engraved in August 1941.

They were reprinted typography and re-issued in December 1942.



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Edited by lithograving - 03/21/2018 10:06 pm
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4351 Posts
Posted 01/12/2012   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
BAYERN1kreuzer, thanks for the description of the various Chinese Junks
issues.
I have a few somewhere but never bothered with them.
Maybe now I will check which printing(s) I have.
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Posted 05/06/2012   10:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jkjblue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Do collectors do a good job differentiating between engraved and lithographic issues?

In my experience - No!

The 1911-21 (engraved) and 1913-23 (lithographed) Greek sets for example...



1911-21 Scott 198 1 lepta green "Hermes" (engraved)
1913-23 Scott 214 1 lepta green (lithographed)

The collectors on this thread are quite sophisticated about the differences. But many collectors have difficulty.

Let me tell you my experience. I was transferring the two issues from a feeder Scott Specialized Greece album into the Deep Blue (Steiner) album, and. thinking the previous owner was no doubt somewhat of a specialist in Greek stamps, I would check the printing type after I had finished.

When I got around to doing the evaluation, I had quite a surprise. Of the "engraved" stamps, 10 out of the 15 stamps I had placed were in fact lithographic stamps! And I found an engraved stamp among the lithographic issue spaces. So confusion indeed!

Is there a technique for determining the difference besides examining the stamp?

Why, yes.



1921 Scott 212 10d deep blue "Hermes carrying Infant Arcas"

Stamp rubbed with a pencil eraser with aluminum foil over stamp.
Will leave an impression if engraved. (Recess)
Will leave nothing if lithographed. (flat surface)

Another tool for the collector.
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Classical era collecting with the Blues
http://bigblue1840-1940.blogspot.com/
Edited by Jkjblue - 05/06/2012 10:40 am
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22094 Posts
Posted 09/28/2012   02:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A very enjoyable thread to read.
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Australia
1168 Posts
Posted 09/28/2012   03:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 22crows to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought someone might have shown the two 2d Sydney Harbour Bridges by now. Rodney? Anybody?
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