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Help With R84c Strange Corner Perfs

 
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Posted 02/25/2016   11:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found this stamp in with a group of normal R84c's.
Could someone please tell me if it is reperfed, an error,
or ???






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Posted 02/25/2016   9:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It had a small double perf at one time, and the top area parted company with the rest of the stamp at some point.
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Posted 02/26/2016   2:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks revcollector;
I still am not sure how this would happen.
Is it common to see this? Is it considered an error?
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Posted 02/26/2016   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There was a long thread on revenue stamps with "freak perfs" a few months ago - http://goscf.com/t/46943
Long story short - the generally accepted view is that due to time pressures / shortages of stamps, some revenue stamps got out with perforation errors caused by the sheet being fed into the perforating machine out of alignment. As a result there were some stamps released with double rows of perforations or partial double rows (when the sheet was backed-out of the perforating machine before going all the way through). Years later, the Sterling Revenue stamp catalog listed these perforation errors and assigned them a premium price. A dealer subsequently got a perforating machine and fraudulently perforated lots of revenue stamps, many of them at crazy angles or with multiple rows of fake perfs.
Your stamp is probably a genuine perforation error with a partial extra row of perfs, but due to the large number of fake perforations on first issue revenues, it would probably be valued less than a normal example.
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Posted 02/26/2016   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you SPQR;

After posting, My sweet Patty said I probably should have posted on back of book.
I read the thread regarding many examples of fakes.
Very interesting!
I had never heard of the Sterling Revenue Stamp catalog.
I googled Orray Taft & Co. Wool textile mills. Two of his
buildings measured side by side 1000 feet. More than most mills.
I wonder if these revenues and the Wool mills could be of
interest and tie in with the Metcalf wool mills spoken
of in "The Hunt Correspondence" This stamp was in a glassine
with 14 others. I think I sold two on eBay. I put this stamp
out there on eBay three months ago as an error for $6.40. It did not sell. They all have the same company postmark with different dates. I do not think that my father even looked at these stamps.

Thought I would share a scan.

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Posted 02/26/2016   9:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You should check to see if any are the silk paper variety.
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Posted 02/26/2016   9:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

How would I do that? Would a scan of the back side help?
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Posted 02/26/2016   10:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, but they would have to be larger then this scan, at least twice as big.

And there is no real way to prove the "freak pers" are genuine. I know there has been a study of them made, and an article written, but unless pressure ridges are evident the perfs are not genuine.
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Posted 02/26/2016   10:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks revcollector;
I will have some scans of the perfed area, up in the AM.
My bet is genuine. If you saw what they came out of, you
would know within a reasonable doubt, that this stamp was
not meant to deceive anyone. I will look forward to higher
res. scans. I will look into pressure ridges. If you pinpoint
that study I would be interested. I sent two items out for certs
early last November, and am still waiting. The minimal Scott value
of this stamp aprox. $10.00, makes me think who would bother to
make a fake! We will see,
See you in the AM!
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Posted 02/27/2016   11:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I searched pressure ridges in our search tab. I did read several threads with references to them. When I googled it, I came up with this very descriptive article. I only took out the appropriate paragraph. What I have read indicates that the inspection must be done in person, in the dark, with a light and magnification. I will try this later today. I read how to do this three times. Having zero experience is making me a little nervous. No mater what I see or think I see I realize I will need an experts eye to confirm.

Regarding the question of silk paper, will scans of the reverse
side of the stamps help to determine that.

The Expert's Corner
A New Column By
J. Randall Shoemaker

"Buy a nice fresh elongated vertically and the top of each hole has a small ridge at the top of the hole. I refer to this as a 'pressureridge' which develops during the government perforating process. The roll of paper is passing through the perforating machine at some speed. As the perforating pin goes into the paper to make the hole, for a fraction of a second, the speed of the paper causes the paper to bunch up a bit and form a little ridge. These ridges are
very important to be able to see on genuine perforations. Study your reference holes carefully under magnification, about 4-8x in a dark room with a single light source, preferably an Ott-Lite. Look at the holes at a shallow angle with the light passing by making it easier to see these pressure ridges. With a little experience, you will be able to see them very clearly. This is the first step in evaluating genuiness. Now, look at the bottom of each of these vertical holes. Notice the paper feathers up a bit from the hole disc being removed. This is another important characteristic of genuine holes. Perf. 10 issues almost always show this clearly. Also, check out the general size of each hole. When you see a stamp with holes a bit smaller and very round, you almost always have a loser in your hand. Comparison
with a known genuine example will help you immensely"
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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 02/27/2016 11:12 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 02/27/2016   12:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You have to understand that back in the 1890's these extra perf stamps were very hot items. And about this time the consolidation of ABNCO led to their decision to sell off the archives of many of the firms they were absorbing. This included Butler & Carpenter (later known as Joseph Carpenter after Butler died). This selloff included the perforating wheels which were bought up by stamp dealers. Fraud in stamps is not a new idea, it was being done then too. I believe the number of genuine double perf stamps is very small indeed, and that the overwhelming number were created later. Even those on document need careful scrutiny to determine if they are genuine.
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Posted 02/27/2016   12:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I saw the study at the Grand Rapids APS show last year, and I know there was an article in the ARA journal.
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Posted 02/27/2016   7:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I waited until dark to have a look. No matter what angle
I look at these perfs, and the others on the stamp, I
can not see ridges anywhere. I am using a loop. I do see
fibers on the perfs on the rear side. The perfs in question may
seem cleaner. That seems as though it could be a clue!
I did do a layover with a different stamp. That looked good
to me.
It will not bother me if proven that this was reperfed.
I just can not see the sense of it. Just being in a yellow
glassine for years with matching company cancels. It seemed
to me that someone picked through many to come up with this
group of on center cancels.
I may bring it to the next stamp show I go to for an opinion.
I hope to go to the World Stamp Show, New York 2016. It is
May 28th - June 4th As many of you may have been through
your clubs, I was extended an invitation to volunteer. Thought
that helping in anyway might be fun.
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Posted 02/27/2016   7:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I will be at the NY show, probably working for someone.
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Posted 02/27/2016   7:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

After I posted last, I went to the SCF search and saw
what had already been posted in the Shows regard.
It was nice to see so many familiar names on the
IkeyPikey thread. I thought of posting there . I have not.
It had not been added to since Sepember 17th. It is March
on Tuesday. I am planning to go. "I Love New York"
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