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Could It Be? Could It Be? Yes It Is An 830B!

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Posted 03/21/2016   1:43 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
That was the question I asked myself,
for over four months, while waiting for a
certificate from The Philatelic Foundation.

They certified it last Thursday, March 17th.
St. Patrick's day. That must have been my
lucky day. It arrived safely today by Federal
Express. It has not yet been added to there database.

This Plate Block was juxtaposed to a regular #830
in one of my grandfather's books. What a contrast!
I did search the PF database and saw that they had only
listed 13 certs. Of those they stated that three were
not 830b's.
Robert A. Siegel's power search shows that they have only
sold two Plate Blocks. One in 1976 in a "Rarities of the World"
auction, and another in 2007. No record of singles.
I also saw Kelleher Auction's has sold some.
Does anyone know how many of this shade were made?
I did try the Swedish Tiger. We also looked at quantities
in Scott's 2015 Specialized Catalogue I have from my library.
It was not listed.
Any information on this issue would be appreciated






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Posted 03/21/2016   2:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Now that is nice. A great find, and a great story. Congrats!
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Posted 03/21/2016   3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations on a great find!
I did a quick search on eBay & found several plate blocks described as 830b ... but only 2 with certs (1 APEX and 1 PF). I can see why one would want a cert. I question whether I could actually discern the color difference even with both varieties in hand. As one might expect, the colors of the various scans on eBay run a wide gamut, especially the 2 certed blocks.
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Posted 03/21/2016   3:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rlm ... That is great. Could you scan your block next to a normal stamp so others and myself can use this as a reference.
Congrats. I have looked recently at s number of these and never saw a copy that I thought was deep blue. Great find
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Posted 03/21/2016   3:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 03/21/2016   4:05 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all,

KGB, Excellent article. I had read that during my
waiting period for the cert.

RG, I have three plate blocks I can post. Both extra
blocks have the matching #'s that Linn's mentioned to be
contenders for 830b. I am able to see color differences
between them. But I do not have the experience to make that call.
The Linn's link will be a great tool as to what is correct.


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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 03/21/2016 5:59 pm
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Posted 03/22/2016   6:12 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

I thought I should have mentioned that the
original plate block that was justaposed to
this block was much lighter in color. I sold that block
on eBay five months ago. The two blocks that I added,
I actually bought on eBay thinking that they had the
right #'s to ?? be 830b's.
They also seemed quite dark in color. Put next to the
cert block, they do look like day and night.
Not even close! Before reading the Linn's article, I was
under the impression that it was all about the hair color
on the back of the head.
Some lighter color issues will have the hair seem much grayer.
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Posted 03/22/2016   6:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add eaglebub7 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On my screen the top 2 have a purple cast. Congrats btw rlm!
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Posted 03/24/2016   7:53 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I do not know all of the answers.

This is the image of the 830b, with an apex cert,
that is on eBay. I added my image to show the difference.
There was no PF certified offering of this stamp or block on
eBay, now or in completed listing's, or probably ever!

I would enjoy anyones opinion!




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Posted 03/28/2016   6:42 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To eaglebub7, I also noticed that purple cast and
a dramatic color difference. I was hoping that someone
might offer more information about this.

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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 03/28/2016 6:53 pm
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Posted 05/10/2016   11:53 am  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to "The Prexies" by Roland Rustad, in a report in the American Philatelist, President Franklin Roosevelt was presented with two 30c sheets, one in the Deep Blue shade and the other in Ultramarine. He chose the Ultramarine for the issued stamp, and the Blue sheet was taken back to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing for destruction. A block of four was saved for President Roosevelt, a known stamp collector.

It is my grandfather, on my Dad's side who was the Superintendent of the Providence, Rhode Island Elmwood Station Post Office at the time the 830b was issued. I did post this on my thread " How much did the Post Office pay 101 years ago?" It seems to me it has its place on this thread. He was at that station from 1914 to 1952.

Other than the color differences, what is of interest to me, is the pencil mark on the upper left corner on this block. The mark looks like part of someones initials or name. I do not think that either my father or grandfather, both being stamp collectors, would have put any mark on any stamp or block. With that in mind, I would have thought it was marked before being sent to my grandfather at the Post Office.

So I took the ten images that PF had in their data base certified as 830b's over a number of years and put my certified image with them for comparison. In my opinion, seven of them have a dark but purple look to them. Only three seem to be blue, but not as deep blue as mine. Of all the certed copies I have seen, none seem to be as deep blue.
I also included images of three from Robert A. Siegel Auction Galleries.
Please know that I am stating this information as I see it. If someone can show me a match in color, I would like to see them. Again, they were all supposed to be destroyed, except for the plate block of four that was given to President Roosevelt. Maybe they knew how much my grandfather loved stamps! Why are all of the certed copies I see not as deep blue. I would like to know what examples are being used to expertize, that so many I have seen are different.

I have written to John Hotchner, the author of the article from Linn's spoken of earlier in this thread. I have not heard back from him. Who knows, maybe my email went into his spam.

Does anyone know if any specialists in this area will be at the "NYC 2016 Show"? Maybe someone can offer contact information or suggest a name. I will look forward to any information.

So not to have this post go on and on, I will follow this with two separate posts. The first will be images of the PF certed 830b's and images taken from Robert A. Siegel Auction Galleries. The second post will included some items of interest as provenance from my grandfathers employment with the Post Office. One letter from the Postmaster stated "speak as if you owned the building and paid the bills".

Respectfully looking for answers,
Bob

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Posted 05/10/2016   11:58 am  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please read the post above dated 5-10-16 as this is an add on
of images.

Images taken from the Philatelic Foundation and
from Robert A. Siegel Auction Galleries.
I will include my certed image every so often as to keep
them close to the images in question. My image is easily
identified by the pencil marking at the top left corner.


































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Posted 05/10/2016   12:00 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please read the post above dated 5-10-16 as this post is only
images of what was discussed there.

Interesting information as Provenance regarding my
grandfathers employment with the Providence, Rhode Island
Post Office.











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Posted 05/10/2016   10:52 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The pencil mark on yours is probably an accounting notation made at the PO. You s

You seem to be implying there are only 100 of the deep blue. I seriously doubt it.

As for trying to match yours to images you get from the internet, you can't compare shades reliably due to issues with scanners and monitors. The only reliable comparison is one do in person with the two stamps side by side.
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Posted 05/11/2016   7:35 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do not think that the mark is from any accounting issue.

I am not implying that there are only a hundred of this example. I am implying that there may be far less than that.
It seems to me that you did not read what was stated by Roland Rusted. I only speak of what I see. I understand the side by side method.
My image reads true to my eye, the others do not seem close. Please show me another that matches mine, other than from the Roosevelt Collection. Then I will be able to sleep at night.

It was written by Roland Rusted that they were all destroyed.
Why does this seem so odd to you.
I did ask for contact information with a specialist.
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Posted 05/11/2016   9:31 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If there were less than 100 in existance, they would be worth more than they are worth.

I see these kind of pencil marks in the margins of blocks and sheets a lot, and I still think they are related to accounting.
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