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Scott # 1203 Variation (1962 Dag Hammarskjold Issue)

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1658 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   6:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add nuggethill to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have two 1203's one is what I believe normal the other has a color shift,I don't think this is a 1203a as It's not on a cover so I assume this is a variation,maybe someone with a bit more knowledge than I can enlighten me.
The variation came from a lot of stamps sent to me by one of the SCF members.

The first photo is of the two stamps


This is the normal #1203

And this is the color variation


Thanks for your help

regards Harry
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USA
1881 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   7:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nr-notrare to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Harry....

It's not just a variation.......you have the error stamp.....many were produced by the USPOD to devalue all but the original FDC's.
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United States
6745 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   9:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp on the left is Scott #1203. The stamp on the right with the deliberately inverted yellow is Scott #1204. Both have the same face value and retail value.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
673 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   10:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldtriguy1960 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ahh, but there is more to it than that.

My 2000 Scott USA Specialized says "The inverted yellow impression is shifted to the right in relation to the black and brown impression. Stamps of first vertical row of UL and LL panes show no yellow at left side for a space of 11 - 11 1/2 mm in from the perforations. Stamps of first vertical row of UR and LR panes show vertical no-yellow strip 9 3/4 mm wide, covering UN building. On all others, the vertical no-yellow strip is 13 1/2 mm wide, and touches UN building."

So it seems to me that there are 3 different styles of the error (no-yellow strip) stamp.
I have 2 of them - one stamp with no-yellow for 9 3/4 mm from the perfs inward, and one with 13 mm no-yellow strip from perfs inward.
On both of the ones I have, the no-yellow strip is solid white from the perfs inward until the yellow starts.

Nuggethill, yours looks different in that it starts yellow on the left, then a small strip of white, then a small strip of yellow, then a small strip of white, then the rest of the yellow.

So is Nuggethill's really the Scott identified intentional error stamps or something entirely different?

Well, I plugged in 1204 into Jim's stamps album...
http://album.dweeb.org/pages/1961_2.html

and the one he has looks like Nuggethil's.
SO now I don't know what is going on.

Things are never simple - so it seems.

Kind Regards,

Dave N.
<><
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Rest in Peace
Learn More...
United States
1806 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   11:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 1775mac to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Click on the picture to see a enlarged size of what Dave is saying about the different types.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6745 Posts
Posted 05/18/2009   11:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dave is correct, there are 3 "varieties" to the yellow inverts, based on their position in the pane.

Scott does not list/recognize these varieties because their editorial policy is to only recognize differences if the color invert results in a complete color missing error in a plate position. This does not happen with the Hammarskjold invert.

nr-notrare is correct that Harry does not have a special variation, just the basic yellow invert. Trust me, I have a full plating of all 32 invert sheets (yes, I was really really bored one year). Harry, you have the basic error stamp that occurs 40 times in every pane.

Thanks for the scan, 1775mac. No more than 2 of these invert "varieties" exist in a single pane. I'll try to pilfer some scans off the internet to show all 3 "varieties". By the way, I also keep a set of pairs as part of my plating collection to show the various "se-tenant variety pairs".

k
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Edited by khj - 05/18/2009 11:48 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/19/2009   12:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK here are the scans of the 3 possible variations of yellow inverts.



Here's an explanation of how this happens, if anyone is interested. I use the traditional nomenclature of a full printing press sheet, which is later cut into 4 panes with positions identified as UL, UR, LL, LR -- like a 4-paned window. Keep in mind that what we often call "mint sheets" are technically panes that are cut from the full press sheet. In the description below, pane is the equivalent of the commonly used term "mint sheet".

Going from top to bottom, the first stamp shows the basic yellow invert. It occurs in the rightmost 40 stamps of every pane.
-- Circled in red, are the inverted white "4"s in the yellow background. This occurs because the "4" is not filled in with yellow.
-- Marked in a red rectangle, you can see part of the inverted yellow plate number
-- Marked in a green rectangle, is a narrow vertical white strip. This corresponds to vertical white space between stamps, which has been shifted because the yellow is inverted

Middle scan shows the far left position of the leftmost panes. It occurs in the 10 leftmost stamps of the UL and LL panes.
-- note there is no white gutter and no inverted white "4"

Bottom scan shows far left position of the rightmost panes. It occurs in the 10 leftmost stamps of the UR and LR panes.
-- Circled in red is the inverted white "4", but it is almost shifted completely off the stamp
-- Marked in a blue rectangle is a wide white strip. This corresponds to the wide vertical gutter that occurs between the panes (not the stamps)

Therefore, in the original printing press sheet of 200 stamps, the top scanned stamp will appear 160 times, the middle scanned stamp will appear 20 times, and the bottom scanned stamps will appear 20 times. The top stamp will appear on every pane. The middle stamp will only appear on the left-side panes. The bottom stamp will only appear on the right-side panes. You can collect attached horizontal pairs of the top stamp with each of the stamps shown below it, but you cannot collect an attached pair of the bottom 2 stamps.

That's what I learned that year I was bored and plated the all the #1204 panes.

k
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
673 Posts
Posted 05/19/2009   07:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldtriguy1960 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you 1775MAc and KHJ!!

I appreciate the great clarification.
That year you were bored has paid off for me.

Dave N.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1658 Posts
Posted 05/19/2009   08:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nuggethill to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Dave,K and Tom for the insight on the complications of the 1203,K I'm not interested in monetary gain only inquisitive so thanks for the amount of study you have done as all that read this thread will learn something new as I have,sorry losing the plot here anyway I knew Scott catalogue said you can only find the 1203A on FDC's so I knew it was some sort of variation but now I know that it's a common error 1203 or a 1204.
So thanks again for the information on this interesting stamp.
regards Harry

Edited to add the 1204
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Edited by nuggethill - 05/19/2009 3:35 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/19/2009   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott #1203a refers to the original yellow invert (unintentional) which was discovered before they deliberately issued yellow inverts less than 1 month later (#1204).

As a stamp, a mint #1203a is indistinguishable from a mint 1204. That is why Scott only lists #1203a as used (and on cover to demonstrate usage BEFORE 16Nov1962, the date #1204 was issued).

One exception is a full pane of the original yellow invert that was donated to APS. This pane was signed in the selvage by 10 collectors to certify that it was discovered BEFORE #1204 was issued.
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 05/19/2009   8:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If you want to play around with these you can check out these eBay lots:

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-MINT-NH-USA...99a52QQitemZ a href= /go/link.asp?target=https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/220069468754 target= _blank rel= nofollow 220069468754 /a QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-USED-STAMPS...ca9afQQitemZ a href= /go/link.asp?target=https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/220081203631 target= _blank rel= nofollow 220081203631 /a QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 05/19/2009   8:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great explanation khj! I've never tried plating an issue. This looks like a great issue to start with.

I know in a few older issues from one country or another you can identify every position by plate flaws. Is there any way to tell the various positions (with and without selvage) of the different sub-groups?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6745 Posts
Posted 05/20/2009   03:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I know in a few older issues from one country or another you can identify every position by plate flaws.

Eh, we bump heads again, this time on SCF!

Yes, for example, extensive plating information is available for the penny black and many of the penny reds. The position letters in the corners help tremendously. Of course, some people like me are easy to please -- one penny black suffices!


Quote:
Is there any way to tell the various positions (with and without selvage) of the different sub-groups?

You cannot tell the exact position if the selvage is absent, but you can roughly determine what column it might have come from. In the scans I provide earlier, if we arbitrarily call the them Types I, II, and III (from top to bottom), then...

Type I appears in the right 4 columns of EVERY pane.
Type II appears in the leftmost column of UL and LL panes.
Type III appears in the leftmost column of UR and LR panes.

I plated the full panes back when you could buy them wholesale for face value or less. Now, if you can find the pane for double face, you got a good deal. There are a total of 32 possible plate number combinations/positions. By the way, these are the exact same plates that were used to print the "normal" Hammarskjold stamps.

It's probably more reasonable to just try to get a full set of plate blocks. Plating the full panes was a little overkill/impulsive on my part -- but a lot of fun.

Another fun and inexpensive stamp to plate is the 7c blue/red jet plane (C51/C60). Some of the same plates were used to print BOTH stamps (because only difference is color). It's interesting to see two different stamps that have the SAME plate number!

k
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Australia
1658 Posts
Posted 05/20/2009   6:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nuggethill to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Steve (Triggers)this came from your lot and still sorting (filled a few holes so far)thanks again
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New Member
1 Posts
Posted 03/25/2012   12:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ito to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a full sheet of 1204 with gum on the back. I noticed that the stamp that you showed in the upper left corner ot the sheet of stamps has yellow to the left of the stamp. The stamp on the sheet I have does not have yellow but white. Refering to khj reply. Could this be 1 of the first inverted stamps sheet. It is possible because my dad collected stamps from the Post Office regularly and might have picked up this sheet on the first day of printing. Is there any way to tell? The plate block number is on the upper left most stamp and is 27279.
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United States
84 Posts
Posted 05/03/2012   4:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add munroe47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a question from a novice (me): what is meant by "plating" an issue???
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