Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Canada 223II Rcmp Broken Leg Variety

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 2,370Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 12/19/2016   07:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jogil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Does anyone have any pictures of the 223ii variety in a block, pair or other multiple? I need some better closer pictures than I have so far found.

I have been trying to do some detective work on trying to get more information on this stamp variety using the book "Canada Steel Engraved Constant Plate Varieties" by Hans Reiche.
In it, it does not give the specific plate position information that I am looking for for this specific variety (223-1). However, it does give the specific plate position information for other varieties around it.

The post office panes are arranged as 5 horizontal by 10 vertical for 50 stamps. A whole printing sheet has 10 horizontal by 20 vertical for 200 stamps. Thus, there are 4 panes in 1 sheet. Also 2 printing plates 1 and 2 were used.

The Unitrade catalogue says this stamp variety is in position 48 which puts it the bottom row of the pane of 50. The surrounding stamps are positions 47 (left), 49 (right), 43 (above), 42 (above left) and 44 (above right).

So far, the bottom small (rather than large) selvage found under this stamp variety shows that this is from either an UR or UL pane.

There is already 1 variety from the aforementioned book that does not appear to have the broken leg in it and it is the hook on horseback variety 223iv (223-26) from plate 1, upper left (UL) pane, number 48 position. Thus, this specfic position 48 is not it.

There is another variety (223-29) which is scratch through "S" in "CENTS" from plate 2, upper left (UL) pane, number 43 position.

There is another variety (223-16) which is dot in right margin opposite "S" in "POSTAGE" from plate 1, upper right (UR) pane, number 42 position.

From these three different varieties, plate 1 UL (223-26), UR (223-16) and plate 2 UL (223-29) are covered. The uncovered one is plate 2 UR which may be the one if the aforementioned varieties are not found on a stamp surrounding 223ii (223-1).
Also, plate 1 UL 223iv (223-26) may be eliminated since it is in the same position 48 as 223ii (223-1) but it is not the same variety.

So far, it appears that variety (223-16) which is dot in right margin opposite "S" in "POSTAGE" from plate 1, upper right (UR) pane, number 42 position appears in a block with 223ii (223-1). However, I need a better block picture to make 100% sure.
Also, I can't yet rule out (223-29) which is scratch through "S" in "CENTS" from plate 2, upper left (UL) pane, number 43 position since I need a better close up picture to be 100% sure.

I might be missing something in my above approach given that 223ii (223-1) is supposed to be a constant variety but it may not always appear on all panes from the same plate so that it is rare.

Auction records show that it is scarce and hard to get multiples of and only one block would be the plating key with positions 42 and 43 or 1 pair strip with position 43: http://www.canadianstampauctions.co...1a/223ii.htm

This specfic block below is from the following auction:
http://www.canadianstampauctions.co...mmentary.htm
Send note to Staff
Edited by jogil - 12/20/2016 01:45 am

Valued Member
Canada
227 Posts
Posted 12/19/2016   11:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Scottamer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Jogil,

This stamp is indeed an interesting oddity. As a constant plate variety specialist, I have always been interested to acquire but never able to afford this stamp. My understanding is that it is a transitory or semi-constant variety that probably did not last very long. I am guessing that it might have been caused by some foreign matter stuck in the plate that was either removed or worked its way loose during the print run.

Your exploration of its position based on other known varieties is interesting. Do keep in mind that some of these other varieties may also be semi-constant as many scratches and marks do not appear consistently throughout a print run. Also you should note that the Hans Reiche book has quite a few errors in its reporting of plate positions. Don't get me wrong. This a great little book for variety hunters but it is NOT completely accurate.

The latest editions of the Unitrade catalogue are generally quite accurate in their reporting of plate positions but still contain a number of wrong plate attributions.

Please update this thread if your research turns up some definitive plating information. I for one would be interested in any information on this stamp since there is almost none in the philatelic literature that I have been able to find.

If anyone on this forum can point me to some research or a substantial article about this variety, I would love to see it. Plus, it is the holiday season, so if someone wants to send me one of these beauties, feel free to contact me through the forum! Cheers!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
http://FlySpecker.com - A Resource for Canadian Constant Plate Varieties
Edited by Scottamer - 12/19/2016 11:11 pm
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 11/04/2019   07:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As quoted from above: "Also, I can't yet rule out (223-29) which is scratch through "S" in "CENTS" from plate 2, upper left (UL) pane, number 43 position since I need a better close up picture to be 100% sure." Upon closer observation, the stamp in position 43 above the stamp variety in position 48 does not appear to have a scratch in the "S" of "CENTS". See closeup: https://siegelauctions.com/2018/1178/1322.jpg Thus, it may be concluded from this that plate 2, upper left (UL) may also be eliminated. Since both upper lefts (ULs) have been eliminated, it may now be from one of either plate 1, upper right (UR) or plate 2, upper right (UR).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 11/04/2019 08:06 am
Pillar Of The Community
7308 Posts
Posted 11/04/2019   2:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jogil

Was with my stamp collector friend on Saturday and he informed me with all his "broken leg" stamps, he may have the only broken leg on cover with O.H.M.S. perfin....I am so jealous..

Robert
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 11/23/2019   07:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a good example as to why blocks and pairs surrounding a specific stamp variety should not be broken down since the surrounding stamps can offer a clue as to which plate pane it belongs to.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 11/23/2019 07:50 am
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 10/14/2020   1:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Finally, found a picture of a large block of 6 to make closer comparisons of surrounding varieties. It would appear that this 223ii (223 - 1) variety comes from plate 2, upper right (UR) pane, number 48 position due to variety (223-16) which is dot in right margin opposite "S" in "POSTAGE" from plate 1, upper right (UR) pane, number 42 position not being there. However, dots are noticed in the "S" of "POSTAGE" on the block shown below for number 42 position.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1297 Posts
Posted 10/14/2020   9:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After enlarging all stamps on this topic page, I still do not see the dot in the right margin opposite S or the dots in the S of POSTAGE.

Is it possible to provide close ups of these varieties as well as the slash through S of CENTS, which I've also never seen.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 10/15/2020   09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since I have looked at the block of 6 above, I have not found the dot in the right margin opposite "S" in the "S" of "POSTAGE" for position 42 which is listed in Reiche but not shown. With regards to the dots in "S", they appear to be visible if one presses on the above picture which will open another window which will show a close up. The slash through "S" of "CENTS" is listed and shown in Reiche. I will see if I can get pictures of the plate proofs for plates 1 & 2 in order to see the more constant varieties and to double check things further.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1297 Posts
Posted 10/15/2020   10:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is the scratch leading to the dot in the image's right side of position 42 consistent with the dot?



I have never heard of Reiche.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 10/15/2020   1:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if the dot is a constant variety or not. It isn't listed in "Canada Steel Engraved Constant Plate Varieties" by Hans Reiche. Also, I don't know if it is a deep plate scratch or a stamp surface scratch since I don't own the block to look further on it. I found the block of six picture from the following website listing: https://www.weeda.com/Bidboard/LotP...96&Current=0 I also found the following interesting information: https://talmantips.blogspot.com/200...of-1935.html
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/15/2020 1:09 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1297 Posts
Posted 10/15/2020   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks jogil for the links to the two articles, especially the https://talmantips.blogspot.com/200...of-1935.html as it shows the many varieties possible with this stamp.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 10/18/2020   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From all of the above, it is being currently concluded that the Canada 223ii stamp variety was from plate 2, upper right (UR) pane, position 48.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/18/2020 09:13 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
Canada
1294 Posts
Posted 10/18/2020   1:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gilles le timbre to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Does anyone knows if a sheet exist in Archives Canada ?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3360 Posts
Posted 10/18/2020   2:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plate proof imperforate sheets of 200 stamps exist for plates 1 and 2 of this issue.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/18/2020 2:04 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 2,370Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2020 Stamp Community Forums
It took 1.86 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05