Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

First off thank you everyone on this board for your support in my very rocky start into stamp collecting.

After discussion on 10/23 when I was called a troll and told I had been ripped off and dumb I rush to send 19 stamps to PF.org (so much better expience then PSE - thanks Billw2 for this advise). Well 18 came back as Counterfit or misrepresented that = 95%


This is No honest mistake by the owner.

EBay proactively aided the seller fraud by DELETING unilaterally my 19 negative feedback on Anthony's LLC within two days of posting. How the hell does that happen?


Ebay BBB accepted my compliant for what little that is worth last week.

I got back some $ from PayPal for all my transaction with in 180 days old but still a substaincial loss for a beginner collector. He did not have the guts to contact PayPal before I won all claims by default. After I won he picked the biggest order to dispute post my winning the case! PayPal shut that down pretty fast but a very underhanded move on his part. He told the BBB he offered me a full refund on anything I wanted to return. Right! NEVER was this offer made.

This seemed outrageous to me so I have notified his deal associate (ASDA) with my official compliant last week so he is now on notice.

Not done with following up but thought my current update tmight be of interest to the board.

Anthony's was "Downright dishonest" and this time busted by the expert committee in NYC with no agenda other then getting it right and honest.

Stanclair was right that this is part of the passage from beginner to intermediate in the hobby.

Billw2 thanks again for having my back!

YoP

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

Anthony's is one of the absolute WORST offenders on eBay when it comes to misrepresented, counterfeit and altered stamp varieties. They have been the topic of discussion many times on this forum and elsewhere. I encourage you, and anybody else, that has been ripped off by this firm to take direct and aggressive action against them. For some reason, eBay shelters and protects Anthony's far more than they should. eBay and the entire philatelic community would be far better off without them.

Hi YOP,
Anthonys is closing in on 100,000 feedbacks (and keep in mind that this number is far less than the actual number of sales they have done on eBay). eBay will always protect the high volume/high dollar sellers since they represent a large percentage of their income. So eBay will do favors for the 'high profit' sellers and delete negative feedbacks upon request. They find more ethics when smaller, less profitable seller make the same request.

Some of us have previously spent a lot of time trying to expose eBay's inane feedback system. Obviously 'tweaking' data in a quality system is a huge 'no-no' in anyone's book. About the only thing we can do is continue to communicate to others the truth about the eBay feedback system. I made a larger purchase just before Christmas and explained to the seller that I did not use the feedback system but instead sent him a message with much more detailed feedback. He was disappointed so I went ahead and used the system since it meant so much to him and it was a good transaction. A lot of people continue to support the eBay feedback system but the bottom line is that it is totally useless and only serves as a marketing tool that boosts eBay's bottom line.
Don

I bought two stamps from Anthony's, one is regummed but was labeled as OG, another with PF cert Hinged but labeled as NH. Returned both. If you are not knowledgeable, please avoid this seller. Too many errors in the listing. Can only buy modern stuff.

Don

That is very disappointing to learn this is the standard MO of eBay. Aiding high volume snake oil sellers is not a sustainable business model in the long run I'm hoping and they will correct this major problem.

Given US classic stamp sales are not even a pimple on this elephant's ass they could continue this for many many years which risks to cheepen this hobby by polutinhg what comes to market. I heard eBay sells about 1/3 of the US stamp volume annually? If true They should be the guiding light for honesty not a promoter deception. I had very false confidence when buyer with a recommended / 'power seller" this close to 100k feedbacks and all negives deal with delivet issues. (Now I know why). This corporation lacks an eithical soul along with the perpetrator Anthony's LLC.

What a shame but I'm calling it my educational fee ( from the School of Hard-knocks). Hard to be root out fraud as an single consumer when you effectively have colustion. This was a "trap" that most collector don't realize they got hurt on until way too late to recover.

Thanks for all the great feedback on this issue.

YoP

I stopped patronizing Ebay long ago because of issues like this. There is absolutely no way to rationalize rewarding entities that do great harm to philately. YoP nor anyone else should ever have to go through this as a right of passage. I often see comments such as "bargains to be had" as if a select few folks discovering a needle in the haystack could possibly cancel out Anthony's, the Cartel, NYStamps and the plethora of other "dealers" abhorrent behavior. Ebay has not helped our pastime it has harmed it.

Rogdcam

I abruptly stop using eBay the same day I got the report card from PF,(a month ago now) I have not committed to "never again" with them as I have been to stamp stores, monthly Local stamp shows in the past start up year. Most material was of no interest (limited US Classics) of the us classic A few nice items and knowing the seller will be back next month is comforting but if feel this is not a robust market.

Can you share fruitful practical alternative outlets for collection of US classic philiallic materials without a big risk of substaincial loss. I hear the name brand real world auction houses are good to bid on but I have no clue how that process works. How do you source materials outside of eBay system? Any tips thoughts or other sage advice very welcome.

My biggest regret is not meeting Don online a year earlier. Now here is a truly a good man with hosety and integrity. Thanks to all and especially Don.

YoP

Ebay is more than Anthony's, NYstamps, the Cartel, et al. There are a lot of stamp dealers on that site, and, for the most part, you can easily find the stamps you need for reasonable prices. That said, it helps to recognize that eBay is basically the Wild West of philately. Don't buy single stamps until you've seen pics of front and back the stamp. Ask the seller about hidden faults before you buy. Never ever buy stamps that have very high catalog value from eBay. Avoid the sellers who peddle in fakes. Educate yourself about which stamp forgeries exist for the area you collect, so you can avoid them. Doubt equals don't buy. If even the slightest thing seems off with a stamp, a listing, or a dealer, don't buy.

For myself, I almost exclusively utilize Stamp Auction Network (SAN) for material. I do not have to wade through the Ebay swamp hoping to avoid the mines in the field. There are good dealers on Ebay but ultimately I choose for myself to not reward a site that does things like erase negative feedback and turn a blind eye to blatant fraud for the sake of fees. The week that I received four US stamps from different Ebay sellers that all had undisclosed faults (after I had specifically asked about this) was the final straw for me. Returns were accepted but what a colossal waste of time and energy. With a few exceptions material on Ebay is there for a reason. Just my opinion and others will disagree. Ebay will never change so long as people keep going there and spending. I for one could care less if they stopped stamp listings. The sellers would migrate elsewhere and hopefully that elsewhere would actually have integrity and weed out the crooks.

Mount-this and rogdcam

I see both sides. No need to debate ebay again.

I'm on the eBay fence for now with a one year personal moratorium on bidding to get educated before (and if) I go back into this moral and financial land mine area. Now I know crimal activity is toliateded by eBay in with a overriding goal of high sales volumes at any cost. Disappointing and wrong in my opinion!

Will be in touch in coming months and watching the informer debate on the hobby.

Best for a great 2018!

YOP, I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience. Over the past two decades I have built a nice U. S. classics collection and I did learn some hard lessons at first. In 2005 I decided to purchase stamps only in a certain way. This will probably be extreme for many on this board but it has worked for me. Here is what I do:
1) 99% of the time, I only purchase stamps that come with a certificate from either the Philatelic Foundation (PF), Professional Stamp Experts (PSE), or Philatelic Stamp Authentication and Grading (PSAG). I would also accept American Philatelic Society Expertization Service (APS or APEX) certificates, but I only collect graded stamps and the APS does not grade stamps, they just expertize them. By the way, these four agencies (PF, PSE, PSAG, and APS) are the four agencies listed in the front of the Scott U.S. Specialized catalog each year as the appropriate authentication organizations for classic U.S. stamps. The certificate must be dated within the last 10 years. For the other 1% of my stamp purchases, I demand and exercise the right to send the stamp in to my choice of organization for expertization. I also resubmit my stamps for recertification as the certificates age; at present my oldest certificate dates for stamps in my collection are in 2005. Every stamp in my collection, regardless of catalog value, has a certificate.
2) I utilize Stamp Auction Network (SAN) as rogdcam recommends. It is a pretty easy signup process and the bidding process can be learned by watching a few auctions at first. Read the terms and conditions for each auction, note the buyer's fee amount and account for it in your bidding, and don't get caught up in a bidding war and you will be fine. The auction companies I use on SAN for my U. S. classics needs are Siegel, Kelleher, Schuyler Rumsey, Harmer-Schau, and H. R. Harmer. I highly recommend any and all of these auction companies.
3) I have dealers I have come to know and trust over the years to supply my U. S. classics material. They are reputable, honest, knowledgeable, and accessible. The top 3 of these are Century (Ed Reiser), Graded Stamps (Steve Crippe), and Rupp Brothers (Christopher Rupp). Google or Bing the company names for their website info.
I hope this helps and I hope you will continue with your interest in classic U. S. stamps.

Rhett

Thanks for all that great info. No doubt your album is 100% weed free. Very Impressive!

Follow up question on the cert over 10 years. I knew as a cert got older it became less valuable/stale. Is there some official "cliff" when it is deemed of officially little additional value by collector standards? That is news to me.

I'm already registered on SAN but never active until today (time permitting)

Thx for taking the time to spell your safeguards on purchasing today.

I'm keeping the faith and buying a lot smarter in 2018.

YOP, I am glad my thoughts were helpful and especially that you are keeping the faith! I don't think you can ever totally guarantee a weed-free collection but my method gives me a good assurance that it is close! In the 5 years that I have been recertifying the stamps with the oldest certs in my collection I have only had 2 reversals of opinion from good to bad out of over 150 submittals, so I am happy with that. As to how often to recertify or how old is too old for a certificate, opinions vary widely on that. I am on the more aggressive end of the scale on that for sure; you will develop your own standard for that over time. The good news for you is if you start now just buying stamps with recent certs you won't face recertification needs for a long time.

Wow, certify every stamp? That seems crazy. The cost for cert is too high. They need to set a cost to certify and not according to a variable catalog value. The cost of the cert is more than the price I have paid for most stamps. This "variable" cert cost has stopped me from getting a few certified. They can almost charge you whatever they want and hold your stamp hostage until they get paid.

The mere existance of eBay has brought stamp sell prices way down because of the competition. Of course dealers will hate eBay for that reason. But then, I do not buy real expensive stamps there.

I do not buy anything from SAN. Let them get their money from the dealers making the money, not from the buyers. Until then, I will not bid there.

Jaxom - SAN does not charge buyers anything.

jaxom, catalog values are not variable; each stamp has one fixed catalog value at any defined moment. The PF is the only one of the 4 organizations that I listed that uses variable retail value as fee basis. The other 3 use fixed catalog value for fee basis - no variability there at all. Whether the fee is reasonable is a personal opinion. As I said, my method of certifying every stamp seems extreme for many but it has given me great results. And if you think about it, a graded collector MUST have all his stamps certified because that is necessary to get the grade. So I think it just depends on your collecting interests and your desire to ensure to the best of your ability that your stamps are what you think they are. As rogdcam says, there are no SAN buyer fees. The buyer fee for any stamp auction is paid to the auction firm, whether the buyer used SAN to bid or not.