Stamp Auction Network (San) Live Agent Bidding

I like the idea for the convenience factor. Not too keen on the mandatory Extended Features membership being a requirement. It would be a slam dunk for me if there were an upset limit on the live bidding cost. Say 5 percent with a maximum amount of "X". Or a sliding scale. Say 5 percent for the first (amount) dollars and 2.5 percent thereafter. Lots of possibilities. Thoughts?



StampAuctionNetwork Agent Bidding!

During our recent survey several StampAuctionNetwork users suggested what would amount to StampAuctionNetwork acting as an agent during live bidding, while not revealing their maximum bid. I am looking for a group of 20 to develop and test this idea. I � will take the first 20 that respond to this email.

SAN Agent Bidding will act as agent for you during live bidding. You will prepare bids at StampAuctionNetwork that the auction firm will not receive until the moment they open the lot. When they open the lot, they will not see your max bid amount, they � will only see the amount over the opening. Entering a SAN Agent Bid will also automatically sign you up with a paddle.

This will be optimal for both current live bidders and current absentee bidders. For absentee bidders this will give you the opportunity to keep the auctioneer from seeing your bid on the book. For live bidders it will keep the auctioneer from seeing � your maximum live bid.

I am recruiting a group of 20 bidders to develop this capability at StampAuctionNetwork. If you are interested, I am asking for 10 live bidders and 10 absentee bidders who will agree to the following:

1. Sign up for Extended Features for $59.95. This will be an extended features option at StampAuctionNetwork.

2. Be willing to place a strong bid or two in an upcoming Kelleher or Siegel sale.

3. Be willing to pay the normal agent fee (?) minus 1/2 %. I will waive any fees in the test period. I also will not charge a minimum.

4. Be able to monitor the sale when your bid(s) come up. The way it will happen, is that when the lot is opened, the SAN Agent bids will be instantaneously entered as if they were live bids. The difference being that the auctioneer will not see the max � bid amount. They will in most cases have priority over other live bids (unless a live bid is entered before the opening is done). If there are more than one SAN Agent bid, the bid will jump to an increment over the 2nd live bid, but will not reveal � anything else. The auctioneer will have no idea which lots have SAN Agent bids on them, so they will not be able to monkey around with the openings. Once your agent bids are placed, you will also have the option to continue bidding past your original � bid. In that case, you would not pay the agent fee.

5. You will pay the agreed agent fees via Paypal. Fees are due on acceptance of the lot.

If you would like to join this test group email me back. I will get a group email started to discuss exactly how it will work, and why it will save you money. We will work out the rest once we have a group.

- Tom Droege

I received the same email. It looks like the equivalent of an ebay sniping service, but for SAN.

It could be handy for those unable or unwilling to sit through sessions for hours at a time.

The devil is in the details though. What is "the normal agent fee"? I've seen anywhere from 3 to 5%, due only on lots you win, i.e., if you were unsuccessful, there is no fee.

This idea has potential.

They will have to be careful with the annual fee plus their 'agent' fee that they don't price themselves too high, otherwise one might as well use a real auction agent.

I e-mailed Tom about the Auction Agent bidding concept and indicated that the fee on top of membership might be too much for the market. The traditional auction agent provides value added beyond just executing bids. Agents can provide bidding advice, inspect lots prior to the sale, execute complicated bids (if / then conditional bids), and use discretion that you can't duplicate through a bidding engine. This is sort of like a full service stock broker vs. etrade. The SAN agent would need to save me a lot more than 1/2% to get me to leave a traditional agent.

SPQR, to dovetail on your post, for those of us that don't typically use traditional agents, if SAN's agent charges aren't considerably below what human agents charge, why would we use it? I would either continue to bid myself (at no cost) or go the traditional agent route and get those additional services.

Since all you're really getting through SAN is automated bid execution, it has to be priced similar to ebay sniping services at 0.5%-1% at most. Otherwise I see it as a nonstarter.

The one scenario where I *might* consider using it is if (1) the auction is one where I cannot find a traditional agent participating, and (2) I don't want to sit through the sessions and bid manually, i.e., "set a snipe".

However, when I bid in auctions, I normally do like to sit through at least part of the session leading up to the lot(s) I want, to "get a feel for the room" and possibly adjust my bids/choices on the fly.

Would really like to understand what people see as the benefit of an agent IF you have a maximum price you're willing to pay for a stamp.

I'm not sure where the maximum part comes into play. Having an agent act for you doesn't mean you give them carte blanche to obtain the item for you. You tell them the maximum you are willing to bid.

To me, the real benefits of using an agent would be (1) having them personally examine lots when you cannot, and (2) if the agent is an expert in your area, e.g., Richard Friedberg is usually available as an agent for most major auctions that have large revenue holdings, they can advise you with respect to market value, comparisons to to other examples they have personally seen, etc.

I'm not sure if this standard agent practice, but with Richard at least, if you have him act as an agent on a lot, he will not bid on that lot for himself, i.e., bid against you. Now, that doesn't mean that he might not have another client as an agent that ALSO wants the same lot. This is why in live auctions, you may sometimes hear a lot jumping many increments rather than going up one by one; an agent may have multiple bids on the same item and has to clear the lower maximum. Same thing with "book" bids. Some auctioneers will go up incrementally against prebids and others will say "I need $XXXX to clear the book" (which in my opinion does the prebidder a disservice as a floor/Internet bidder might drop out before the prebid max if it wasn't made public).

BobInRye - are you asking about the benefit of an agent versus bidding live (in-person or online) or versus giving your bids to the auction house?
Compared to live bidding using an agent means you don't need to travel to the auction or watch the auction live waiting for your lot. As rev mentioned, the agent can provide bidding advice and examine the lot for you. In addition, the agent conceals your identity from the house during bidding. This may not matter for most people, but for a bidder with a reputation for bidding aggressively on lots it helps prevent the house from "running" a bidder. Also, an agent can use his or her discretion (if you give them permission to do so) to modify your bids based on how you did on earlier lots. For bidding directly with the house, many bidders don't want to tell the auctioneer the maximum they are willing to pay. The agent allows you to conceal your maximum bid.

The auction house represents the seller and themselves.

If you give a seller a top bid, be prepared to pay it. I, and many others have learned that lesson the hard way early on. The cost of an agent is more than offset by the money they save you by hiding your top bid - unless you only place very low bids. If you are an aggressive bidder then you simply cannot afford to tip your hand and reveal your top bid. To do so is a catastrophic mistake, unless you just don't care about money.

Agreed. I never place bids in advance for a live auction. I either bid live online or I don't bid.

In fact, I'm always a bit wary of "Internet sales" or "Mail sales" where there is no live bidding and you have no choice but to bid in advance. The terms usually say that winning bid will be one increment over the underbidder, but I'm always suspicious when I win a lot magically right at or just below my max bid... and that seems to happen more often than not. That's a different issue from "tipping your hand" re: max bid, but still an argument against advance bidding of any kind.