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New South Wales 5d & 8d Imperf Diadems

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Posted 01/18/2019   8:50 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Guybon John Hutson says about 1865 for the type of NSW cancellation with serifs shown on the Eight Pence diadem.
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Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 01/18/2019 8:52 pm
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Posted 01/19/2019   01:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cancellation is from the Pearson Hill machine which White (p62) states was received in the colony on 18th January 1867.
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/19/2019 01:27 am
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Posted 01/19/2019   06:36 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It would be interesting to know what the great philatelist Hutson based his 'about 1865' on.

On this page from his collection (end of 1st row) there is an annotation for the NSW cancellation with serifs as 1864 (regardless of who made the annotation, he appears to have arranged them chronologically):


This one is from the Bruce collection, showing the cancellation looking quite worn, used only 4 days after 18th January, 1867:



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Edited by fairdinkumstamps - 01/19/2019 07:00 am
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Posted 01/19/2019   07:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Hutson page will be based on his statements on page 50 of his book ("I have attempted by means of dated cancellations, which are comparatively scarce, to arrange the many shades up to 1888 in their correct order.").

Each row on the page you've shown has annotations at the end that appear to relate to the dated copies. The third stamp shows the year as 64 but I can't read the month/day. The annotation above the last stamp on the first row, as best as I can make out, says FLAW NO. 26. The last stamp on the 3rd row has the cancellation also.

The second image is not worn, it's overinked and only slightly at that. A wonderful early strike, it would've been happily incorporated into the collection Status sold in July last year

Reading page 18 of Hutson wouldn't fill anyone with confidence of his in depth knowledge of the cancellations of NSW.

White says that the introduction of the Pearson Hill machine in the UK "proved so successful that by 1865 its use was being extended throughout the UK." Let's not forget that Hutson was an Englishman.

According to Gibbons, the Royal Purple shade appeared in 1872, meaning the dull violet shade was the only shade from it's first appearance in 1861. Using White's dates, there were 5000 5 shilling stamps printed in 1867, 1869 and 1870 (ie: 15000 in total) with 2500 printed in 1868.
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/19/2019 07:41 am
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Posted 01/19/2019   08:12 am  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Page 18 of Hutson is the 1851 George Ginger list of NSW towns and populations.

His brief summary of the Sydney duplexes is on page 40, followed by illustrations AA (11 illustrations) and BB (9 illustrations).

The shade of the last stamp on the first row matches the preceding one with the 1864 CDS.

Would love to see a clear scan of the CDS on the last stamp to see why it was placed in that row.

Yes - note above last stamp is 'flaw 26'.




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Posted 01/19/2019   2:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The cancellation is from the Pearson Hill machine which White (p62) states was received in the colony on 18th January 1867.


This one, do you think? (Parallel motion)

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Posted 01/19/2019   3:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes Rod that'll be the one. His machines were called parallel motion.


Quote:
The shade of the last stamp on the first row matches the preceding one with the 1864 CDS.


We'll have to agree to disagree on that fairdinkumstamps. The dated example looks brighter with more red in the colour than the last stamp in the row, to my eyes at least.
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Posted 01/19/2019   3:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yes Rod that'll be the one. His machines were called parallel motion.


Bobby,
I apologise to seek your opinion, then dispute it. No disrespect intended.
I searched for this image, (poor naming convention used), now just found it.

I think this is the Pearson Hill Parallel motion device used, (at least in West Australia) I think.

Comments?
Happy to stand corrected.

Or.... same machine basically, but differing model ?

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Edited by rod222 - 01/19/2019 3:56 pm
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Posted 01/19/2019   5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Both pivot machines I'd say Rod How lovely is Victorian machinery?

From White p.62:

The Pivot Machines, M4, 1874
"To give greater flexibility, Hill mounted his mechanism on a swinging arm known as a Pivot. A new machine (or possibly a new date-stamp for M3) was introduced in 1874. Used as a backstamp on transit mail, it showed a code letter above and below the date....In 1877, 12 additional Hill "Pivots" were despatched from London....Not all of these were used in Sydney - six went to Melbourne and two to Brisbane."

This makes me wonder if some of the duplex cancellations were mounted on Pearson Hill's machines at some point

Anyway, the M3 is the cancellation we've been talking about.

This is an example of the M4. Unfortunately not as crisp as I'd like but it's the only one I have. It's from an 1874 cover. The year in the cancellation is two digits but obviously it's not showing (or absent) from my example. White states it was used over an 18 month period, January 1874 to July 1875.

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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/19/2019 6:01 pm
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Posted 01/19/2019   6:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How lovely is Victorian machinery?


Note:
The obligatory mug for tea.
The covers on the bench.
The tin and sponge of black ink for the hand cancellers.
The Hand cancellers in the cabinet ! (envy)
The Hide on the counter, to prevent "stuttering" of the hand strikes.
(Still used in Perth in the 1970's in the GPO)
No iphones, TV, computer screens, just oral /spoken entertainment.
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Posted 01/19/2019   8:18 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This image of 1874/75 backstamps is from the Bruce collection, formed by Dr. H. B. (Barnett) Bruce in the 1930's:

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Posted 01/19/2019   8:44 pm  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What an amazing thread!
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Posted 01/19/2019   9:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice fairdinkumstamps - thanks for sharing

I've read that the Bruce collection has been digitised by Philas. Do you know if this is available in the public sphere?
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Edited by Bobby De La Rue - 01/19/2019 9:20 pm
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Posted 01/19/2019   9:36 pm  Show Profile Check fairdinkumstamps's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add fairdinkumstamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bobby De La Rue,

If you go to the Philas home page at

http://philas.org.au/

and then click on 'DISPLAY COLLECTIONS' under the PHILAS COLLECTION heading, you will find all available collections.

Alternatively, the direct link to the Bruce collection is here:

https://rabit5540.wixsite.com/websi...e-collection

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Posted 01/19/2019   10:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much fairdinkumstamps, you are a fair dinkum legend

There's enough information there to keep me quiet for a good while.

Do you know if this is a work in progress? There doesn't appear to be any coverage for Armidale, Cootamundra and Dubbo. Maybe these parts of the collection were lost in 1959?
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