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Question On German Democratic Republic 1956 Stamp

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Posted 02/21/2020   8:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stampy1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Does anyone know the value of a German Democratic Republic 1956 Coat of Arms 20 dienstmarke stamp, perforation 14, in mint unhinged condition? StampWorld says $4,880, but I'm not holding my breath (from prior experience). I see a listing online that looks like all 5 in the set for $1,500. It's listed on StampWorld under the official stamp section. I believe it's Scott DDR32Y, not sure what Michel number. Any information would be greatly appreciated...just beginning to research my childhood collection from 35 years ago.
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2012 Posts
Posted 02/21/2020   9:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
32y is a Michel number, of which there are three types.

The cheapest is Mi 32yII. Two NH ones both signed Weigelt BPP sold on German eBay recently for about US$95; another is being offered at the same price. These used to be worth much more.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/21/2020 10:15 pm
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Posted 02/21/2020   10:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampy1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ha, my first post and I screwed it up. Now that you mention it, I think I saw something online saying that Scott doesn't list this stamp. I appreciate the response!
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United States
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Posted 02/22/2020   12:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampy1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In looking at another post from a few years ago, it appears that my stamp might actually be a Michel 37yBy, which doesn't look like it's worth much. If that's the case, very deceptive that the only 14 perforated stamp on StampWorld is listed at $4,880. I've learned not to get too excited by what I see on StampWorld.
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Posted 02/22/2020   09:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Stampy1

Welcome!

The 20pf DDR Official is often misidentified. It would be helpful to see a scan of your stamp.

Without getting into the weeds with plate flaws and watermark positions, here is a quick and dirty way to sort them out. Scott number on the left and Michel numbers on the right:



I hope this helps!
Dan


Edit: I had to correct the chart.
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
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Edited by danstamps54 - 02/22/2020 09:48 am
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Posted 02/22/2020   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan,
(PS: Your freebies Australia have been posted)
had to read a few times to get the understanding.
Care to peruse this eBay listing, and give your opinion please?
What are we to look for?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Germany...cectupt=true
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Edited by rod222 - 02/22/2020 1:35 pm
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Posted 02/22/2020   2:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod,

I apologize if my "chart" confused. Let me step through your stamp.
The compass arc points to the right (red circle). This rules out SC O22. There is evidence that the paper is granite. (green circles - more obvious on the back )This makes it either a Michel 32y or a very common O40. The difference is only the watermark. A watermark 297 (2X) makes it a Michel 32Y. A watermark 313 (3X) makes it an O40.

I checked the eBay listing. It does appear to be granite paper. It's way too fuzzy for me to determine the watermark from the pictures provided though. They're not difficult to distinguish when they are in hand but to rely just on the scan without a BPP cert, it's a crap shoot.
I hope that helps!




Thanks again for the stamps!
Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
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Posted 02/22/2020   3:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Fabulous Dan,
nicely executed and understood.
Will have to check my duplicates for the granite paper, which can vary hugely with postage stamps, from a few flecks, to a rainbow.
Surprised the vendor does not show the Wmk, which is so important to the Mi32Y.
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Posted 02/22/2020   4:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add danstamps54 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Surprised the vendor does not show the Wmk, which is so important to the Mi32Y.


The Wmk is what usually trips people up on correctly ID'ing the stamp. This is especially true for those of us who use the Scott catalog. It's easy to miss a watermark change in the catalog listings. Scott's organization doesn't help either. The Redrawn issues on granite paper are further down the page and there is no "see also" hint.

Dan
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Experienced stamps need a home too. I'd rather have an example that is imperfect than no example.
I collect for enjoyment, not investment.
APS Member #223433
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Posted 02/22/2020   8:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Scott's organization doesn't help either.


I fail to see your point here Dan,
Agreed the Wmk naming regime can be awkward in some cases,
but the stamps are all on the same page, and my experience does show "See......" etc.

What is apparent, is that Mi32Y is just not listed at all.
A Wmk 297 20 pfennig in granite paper is not listed at all.
It appears from discussions here it is an extreme rarity, perhaps we can forgive Scott for that?

I looked at a dozen or so 20 pf Olives
My Granites were only Quatrefoils (Wmk 313)
Gives an idea of the Granite Paper. (Mint unhinged and used)
Interesting to note, the Granite Paper was not identifiable front of stamp.
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Edited by rod222 - 02/22/2020 9:23 pm
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Posted 02/23/2020   12:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OK. This will either make things clearer, or scramble everyone's brains. Rod, save this in your master file, because I don't think I have the will to try this again! Usual disclaimer -- not my collecting area, so no specialized knowledge -- all I'm doing is trying to decipher the catalogs.

As to the DDR 20 Pf Officials, there are 23 major varieties listed in Michel, and 4-5 in Scott. I think I've successfully matched them up, but Scott's listings aren't a model of clarity.

First, some background. There are 5 possible watermarks:


Of note, Scott doesn't distinguish the sub-varieties of watermark.
Scott Wmk 297 = Michel Wz. 2
Scott Wmk 313 = Michel Wz. 3

And four possible designs for the hammer & compass:



Michel also lists the CTO reprints (Nachdruck, catalog suffix 'N'), which adds considerably to the number of listings. Heres' my best stab at a summary:
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Presenting the GermanStamps.net Collection - Germany, Colonies, & Occupied Territories, 1872-1945
Edited by PostmasterGS - 02/23/2020 02:24 am
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Posted 02/23/2020   01:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rod, save this in your master file

I always do.

Just when I thought I had it sorted. Whoa!
I had it neatly packaged, after I realised both Scott and Gibbons HAD the stamps "mentioned" just not afforded Catalogue numbers.
Now this!

With gratitude Postmaster, will need some time to digest your research.
I look forward to seeing if I can identify the subtle Wmk formats under fluid.
Thanks so much for your time, spent on behalf of us all.

PS. I had trouble with the "compass knob" not sure what is meant be "open" or "closed", I am presuming the compass legs are delineated, or not, depending on design.


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Edited by rod222 - 02/23/2020 01:56 am
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Posted 02/23/2020   02:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
PS. I had trouble with the "compass knob" not sure what is meant be "open" or "closed", I am presuming the compass legs are delineated, or not, depending on design.


Rod,

I think it's referring to a gap in the outer circle of the "knob" at about the 10 o'clock position.
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Posted 02/23/2020   02:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see it! Again, thanks Postmaster.
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Posted 02/23/2020   02:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PostmasterGS to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I should also note that in Michel, the watermark depictions are as viewed from the back of the stamp.

And that the Michel data is current as of 2019, while the Scott data is from 2015.
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Posted 02/23/2020   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that was a lot of fun.
Your summary was a fabulous help,
Some great values amongst those,
Basically, if you have a 297 watermark on the 20 pfennig Olive, start getting excited.
Observations.
Of my 4 granites, 3 were P14, 3 were Wmk 313 reversed.
Wmks generally easy to see, some not so, and looked sideways.

Dan was correct, one cans see Granite paper from the front, not easy, but possible.

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