New South Wales 1850-1851 Two Pence, Which Plate? Expertised?

Hello all Stamp Masters,

Im curious as to the identity of this stamp.
First off: Does it look authentic?
I tend to think it should be Plate V, because of the pearl in the fan-shaped ornament. But im not sure whether this is right.
Next Question: This stamp seems to have been expertised by one "J. SCHL".
Do you have any information or reference for him? Is he well known?

Thanks!




*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

Not necessarily an "expertiser's mark"
Could be...
A joke,
an owner's mark
A forgery

Stamp, looks like a very bad imitation to me
Caveat: These are highly specialised.

Called "The Sydney Views"
Vignette represents sydney's attributes, merchandise, receiving Convicts at Sydney Cove
"Sic Fortis Etruria crevit"
= Thus the mighty Etruria (Rome) grew (Virgil)

Only image of the 2d I have (Not Mine)
The 2d came in varieties Vert of Horiz background shading

Printing carried out by Charles Kay, on a primitive Hand Press.

Beware of the "Honey Trap" when buying these.

This purchaser lost a cool $400


Basic design examples of the Tuppenny Blue.

Hi LordInVader,

The stamp is 100% genuine. Plate 5, position 4 (ie: top row, 4th stamp from the left). The cancellation is most likely a Sydney dumb obliterator.

The expertiser's mark is Julius Schlesinger, a Berlin dealer who lived from 1858 to 1920. While there are doubts over his reliability, in this case all is OK.

Great news Bobby,
where may we see images of the plates please?
Bibliography?
(Great to see a genuine up close)

Hi Rod,

In this case I've used Hutson's image, but images of plate reconstructions can also be found in Basset-Hull.

As you said, specialised stuff!!

Thanks Bobby,

I think I have Basset Hull.
I'll have to dig that out.

I was surprised to see that genuine, I knew the engravings were poor,
but that one is a cracker.

I have a mimeographed print of the Forgeries by Jeffreys by a Journalist, and the forged Pmks.
Although it mentioned only the one penny, I thought this may have been one of his.

Manwood (lot 4258) had a position 4. I will scan it in the morning and post it up

Mods: Can we get this thread moved into the Australia section please?

Hello one and all,

Thank you for the information provided, and the heads up on the Ebay fakes.
I got this one for around $42.
Since this is Plate V, this would make it a Scott #8, right?

Yes Sc#8
Greyish Wove Paper
Pearl in the Fan shaped ornament.

Suggestion: Check Stanley Gibbons for minor varieties?

Just for Interest,
"SCHOOLBOY COLLECTION"
According to this returned $5,000
(mint unused 1d and 2d blue)

Prestige auction Saturday 14th August 2010
click to expand image

Bobby De La Rue, have you considered position 13 (second row, 1st stamp)? It looks pretty good.

Would have to agree fairdnkumstamps. The benefits of daylight and hi res scans!!


Plate V Position 4


Plate V Position 13

Yes LordInVader, the stamp is Scott #8

Just curious:
How do you tell the position of the plate?

Each of the stamps were engraved individually on the copper plate, so there are differences that enable the observer to distinguish the position on the plate.

A reference image of plated stamps (such as in G J Hutson's book mentioned by Bobby De La Rue above) allows the philatelist to determine which position corresponds to the stamp in question.

The 'plates' for a particular denomination were in fact all the same plate, re-engraved when the soft copper wore down.

Thread Bumped : Dormant 1 year.

The latest offering from Richard Juzwin
Does this look like a double print? or is this normal for these?