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Where To Get Indian States First Issues?

 
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Valued Member

Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
89 Posts
Posted 12/17/2010   2:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add shareminator to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,
i am first issue collector - beginner, where I can buy early Indian states stamps, especialy first issues, in this field is soo many forgeries, there are any sources with 100% real ones?
thank you for tips
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5894 Posts
Posted 12/17/2010   2:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would go with auction houses that will allow you to obtain a certificate for the stamp, and will take it back, if it does not turn out to be genuine. You will probably need to notify them before bidding that you wish to do this, but it would be the best way to guarantee that you got what you paid for.
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Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/17/2010   6:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shareminator, the last thing I want to do is to discourage you from taking on the Indian States. I collect them exclusively, and I love them, and want to see others collect them.

However ... the first issues of the Indian States can be very tricky, and expensive. If I was selling (and I'm definitely NOT), this first issue of Barwani, not listed in any of the catalogues by the way, would set you back £3000:



Many others are much more affordable.

I have a couple of rather long-running threads on another forum dealing with the Indian States. This one deals with them in general:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...?f=13&t=8480

and this deals specifically with fakes

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopi...f=13&t=13744

You're also welcome to post scans of anything you're interested in here, and I'll be happy to give an opinion.

Smauggie is right about certificates. Before buying anything expensive from the Indian States, you should insist on a Certificate. Those issued by the BPA (British Philatelic Association) in London are the gold standard for the Indian States. I don't usually trust certificates from any other body. However, be warned: the BPA is very slow.

If you're going to do the Indian States seriously, I'd strongly recommend joining the India Study Circle (http://www.indiastudycircle.org/index.html), and you should invest in a copy of the Gibbons India catalogue, or their most recent Commonwealth & British Empire Stamps 1840-1970 catalogue.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/18/2010   12:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see I forgot to cover where to buy Indian States.

There are very, very few dealers I could recommend without reservation. In North America, there is Geoffrey Flack (http://tibetanpost.com/tpost.php) and Stamps Inc. (www.stampsinc.com). In the UK, there is Gibbons (www.stanleygibbons.com/), and for George VI era in particular, Murray Payne (www.murraypayne.com).

Be wary of ebay. There are honest sellers on ebay, who will sell you the genuine item; there are honest sellers, who are honestly out of their depth with the Indian States, and will sell you the wrong thing, and there are outright crooks, who haven't yet been weeded out by ebay. The same goes for all the auction houses, except Gibbons. (Gibbons is excused, because one of the directors is one of the foremost authorities on the Indian States, and heads the BPA's expert committee on Indian States as well.) Don't buy sight unseen, and don't necessarily trust the auctioneer's descriptions.

Be particularly wary of bargains. There are no bargains to be had in properly described, genuine Indian States stamps. You may get lucky and find a misdescribed genuine item. In my experience, though, you're more likely to find sellers over-identifying, rather than under-identifying, their stamps. All their geese are swans. A typical example is Jammu & Kashmir SG 1, the ½ Anna grey-black (£300 mint, £120 used): I don't know how many times I've seen SG 14, the ½ Anna deep black, (£32 mint, £200 used) offered as SG 1. (Learn how to distinguish the water-colour and oil-colour printings, and you'll save yourself a bundle - and maybe even make one.)

And try to be patient: acquire the knowledge to distinguish the genuine from the fakes. It takes time and effort, but it'll be worth it in the end. Trust me: I've been there, done that ... and I have a fine selection of fakes to show for it.
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2664 Posts
Posted 12/18/2010   01:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
cpme on uncle tony the two best ones are me and you both we are both not selling :)
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Valued Member
Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
89 Posts
Posted 12/18/2010   11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shareminator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
what happened with replies here?
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/18/2010   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What, indeed?
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Australia
1251 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   06:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Horamkhet to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Hi tonymacq
This is part of the family accumulation I believe it is Deccan in the state of Hyderbad?
Regards,
Horamakhet
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   06:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Horamkhet, yes this is a Hyderabad stamp, SG 13. It's a shame that the cancellation covers the upper left part of the central inscription. There's a nice error, consisting of a missing dot, right under where the top bar falls. Looking closely, I think I see the dot there, though.

This stamp does have another distinction though. When it appeared in 1871, it was probably the first stamp ever to be inscribed in four languages: Hindi, Telugu (a South Indian language), Urdu and English, reading clockwise from top left around the central labels.

It's also an example of what some call an 'orphan stamp': it doesn't show the country name anywhere. The closest it comes to doing so is the Nizam's (the ruler's) cipher in the centre. Hyderabad was easily the largest of the Indian States, and it nearly always disdained to put its name on its stamps. In 1927, it unbent so far as to inscribe its top value, the 1 Rupee, of that year 'H(is) E(xalted) H(ighness) the Nizam's Government'



but it only actually used 'Hyderabad' once, for the 1945 Victory stamp



I can recommend Hyderabad as an interesting country to collect. The material is reasonably available and accessible, it has some beautifully engraved stamps - and being a dead country, there's no flood of new issues (like Australia Post is inflicting on Australian collectors).

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1251 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   07:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Horamkhet to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi tonymacg
Thank you for the information
I have thousands of stamps to check in the accumulation that my family has made over the last century and half. Who knows what is going to turn up.
I once met the Nizam of Hyderabad. I believe he is living in poverty now in Turkey. He lived in WA at one time. Interesting man
Horamakhet
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   07:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I envy you having met the Nizam - but this should certainly spur you on to collect Hyderabad! I've also heard the same things about him. A very sad story, the Nizam's. To go from being reputedly the wealthiest man in the world, to penury in Turkey, his semi-ancestral home, is a mighty fall.
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Valued Member
Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
89 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   07:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add shareminator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
tonymacg I know yet, why I can´t sent you mail, I need 50 posts, as soon as I will, I will contact you.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3547 Posts
Posted 12/19/2010   07:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that makes Number 48
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