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Canadian 'Admiral' Lathework Printings

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Rest in Peace
7742 Posts
Posted 09/26/2011   10:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Double WOW......stamporator
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Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/26/2011   11:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice. Talk about dressing up the admiral!
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Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 06/08/2014   4:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Picked this guy up yesterday at the North Toronto Stamp Club Bourse, so thought a good excuse to revive this thread.
The gentleman who sold it to me explained the lathe work this way, when I mentioned that I'd never heard a decent explanation for the lathe work.
He said it was used to detect wear on the plate. The plates wear from the outer edge, so the intricate pattern would show when the plates were starting to wear down, after many uses.
So when stamporator described his examples as 100%, 80% or 40%, that indicated how much of the lathe work was left, or conversely how much wear there had been.
Made sense to me.


Used MR1 War Tax.


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United States
8956 Posts
Posted 06/08/2014   6:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think these stamps are beautiful! Question. I see a guide dot on both jamesw's War Tax stamp and on the regular 1 cent stamp on the previous page. It is on exactly the same position on both stamps. Does this mean the same plate was used for both stamps? ( I also see the guide arrow is the same? ).

Peter
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Canada
528 Posts
Posted 06/08/2014   6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamporator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Peter4522,

My guess is that the two (2) examples of the MR1 single with guide arrow and lathework are from different plates.

The reason for this is that the plate had engravings that included the stamps, lathework and guide arrows. Once these elements were engraved, the relationship (i.e. offset) between each were fixed. In example for Jamesw (on page 2), if you look at the guide arrow and follow the arrow down into the lathework you will see that the white line of the lathework is very close to being an extension, whereas the example of page 1 has an offset between these two (2) lines of approx. 5 line widths.

Each plate has guide dots, and it seems that these two (2) plates have one in a similar location.

- stamporator -
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7072 Posts
Posted 06/08/2014   10:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A great thread, and good to see it revived. Super stuff.

As a KGV collector, I've given short shrift to Canada over the years, but I've been trying to make amends.
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Canada
528 Posts
Posted 06/09/2014   4:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamporator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some more scans of Admiral Lathework stamps that I have acquired since my initial posting of over 3 years ago!

Scott 104, Lathework Type B, Full, Single


Scott 104, Lathework Type B, Full, Block


Scott 105, Lathework Type D, Full, Horizontal Pair


Scott 106, Lathework Type B, Full, Horizontal Pair


Scott 106, Lathework Type C, Full, Block


Scott 107, Lathework Type D-INV, 40%, Single


Scott 107, Lathework Type D-INV, 40%, Block


Scott 108, Lathework Type B, Full, Single


Scott 108, Lathework Type B, Full, Block


Scott 108, Lathework Type C, 80%, Single


Scott 108, Lathework Type D, Full, Block, dry printing


Scott 109, Plate Block 126, Lathework Type D, Full, Block 6


Scott 109, Lathework Type D, Full, Horizontal Pair


Scott 109, Lathework Type D, Full, Block


Scott 110, Lathework Type D-INV, 40%, Single, Olive Yellow, Wet Printing


Scott 110, Lathework Type D-INV, 100%, Block



The rest of the Admirals to come later......

- stamporator -
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Posted 06/09/2014   9:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You've been busy.
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Valued Member
Canada
379 Posts
Posted 06/12/2014   5:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add koala to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stamporator : beautiful for the eyes
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Posted 01/16/2018   8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The following U.S. American Bank Note Company patents appear to have something to do with the Canada Admiral stamp lathework:
1166513 (1916), 1241721 (1917), 1241722 (1917), 1241723 (1917), 1261223 (1918), 1294639 (1919)
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Edited by jogil - 01/16/2018 8:14 pm
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Posted 01/18/2018   07:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Does anyone know if any of the lathework designs were actually used on any other Canada stamp design itself rather than on the margin selvage? The Dominion of Canada paper currency bills printed by the American Bank Note Company and the Canadian Bank Note Company has these lathework designs in them. Were they using part of the stamp plates for testing them out economically on selvage margin paper that would be cut and wasted or were they preventing the use of selvage margin paper by others? Perhaps a numismatic expert on this may help to answer such questions even though it could relate to the Canada Admiral stamp lathework.




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Edited by jogil - 01/18/2018 08:23 am
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Posted 01/19/2018   11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
New big auction of these Admiral lathework stamps mentioned in CSN.

https://canadianstampnews.com/spect...ctions-sale/
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Posted 01/20/2018   1:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The only Canadian stamp that I found so far in Scott/Unitrade catalogue with lathework in the actual design itself rather than in the bottom selvage within the 1917-1924 ABN/CBN lathework period is E2 from 1922. (E1, E4, E5, E7, E8, E9, F1-F3, J1-J10, OX1-OX4 BOB stamps also have lathework in their actual stamp designs but these are out of the above time period.)

It may appear that the bottom margin selvage lathework was directly engraved onto the actual stamp printing plates as test developments or experiments for such lathework making by using the extra space on the bottom of the printing plates for the aforementioned patents.

However, the greatest use of this was made in the currency design lathework of Dominion of Canada 1917 ($1.00), 1923 ($0.25, $1.00, $2.00), 1924 ($5.00) banknotes as being within the 1917 to 1924 period.


Canada Scott/Unitrade E2

William S. Eaton, American Bank Note Company. US1156513A. Patented Jan. 4, 1916.
My invention is especially adapted for use in creating designs for, or upon printing plates, and plates, or matrices for use in developing printing plates, which designs are in the form of rosettes or other intricate geometrical designs, to be used in connection with the production of safety papers such as are used in bank notes, negotiable papers or instruments. Heretofore, these safety designs have been either made by hand or upon a rose engine or engine lathe, the design resulting from certain predetermined mechanical movements in the machine itself.

By this means, a limited number of designs only could be produced, and the safety factor was limited by the known capacity of the machine. Growing out of this condition, it has heretofore been the custom to develop a part of the design by machine and the balance by hand. A rose engine is capable only of producing scroll work, and if it be desired to include in the white line safety elements of a note, paper or instrument, an element other than a scroll, such as is usually found in bank notes, this is always done by hand. The old method of producing safety designs referred to required a period of from two to ten weeks, or more of expensive, high class skilled labor, and as I have heretofore stated, the designs created in most instances were all modifications of one general design.

By my improved mechanism, I am enabled to secure intricate geometrical designs, susceptible of practically infinite variations, each of which designs will be complete in itself and, when a plate is made upon a machine, will require no hand finishing. I am also enabled to mechanically superimpose one design upon another, or insert a number or word design in the body of a scroll work design. I am also enabled to make a proof design and a completed design in a materially shorter time than is possible with the old rose engine and hand work method.

William S. Eaton, American Bank Note Company. US1241721A. Patented Oct. 2, 1917.
My invention is especially adapted for use in creating designs for or upon printing plates and plates or matrices for use in developing printing plates, which designs are in the form of continuous or interrupted borders, to be used in connection with the production of safety paper such as is used in bank note or other negotiable papers or instruments. Heretofore, these border designs have been made in the same manner as the rosette designs, in part by the use of a rose engine or engine lathe, and in part by hand, portions only of the completed design being used and the design being completed by hand. Owing to the well known and well defined operative effect of such engines or lathes, the border designs have not been widely diversified, and the labor of producing same has, as with rosettes, been extensive and has required a high degree of skill.

By my improved mechanism, I am enabled to secure complex designs susceptible of wide variations, each of which designs will be complete in itself, and when a plate is made upon a machine, will require no hand finishing. I am also enabled to mechanically superimpose one design upon another as by inserting a number or word design in the body of a scroll work design, and further, am enabled to make a proof design and a completed design in a shorter time than is possible by the old rose engine and hand work method.

William S. Eaton, American Bank Note Company. US1241722A. Patented Oct. 2. 1917.
My invention is especially adapted for use in creating designs for or upon printing plates and plates or matrices for use in developing printing plates, which designs are in the form of continuous or interrupted borders, to be used in connection with the production of safety paper such as is used in bank note or other negotiable papers or instruments. Heretofore, these border designs have been made in the same manner as the rosette designs, in part by the use of a rose engine or engine lathe, and in part by hand, portions only of the completed design being used and the design being completed by hand. Owing to the well known and well defined operative effect of such engines or lathes, the border designs have not been widely diversified, and the labor of producing same has, as with rosettes, been extensive and has required a high degree of skill.

By my improved mechanism, I am enabled to secure complex designs susceptible of wide variations, each of which designs will be complete in itself, and when a plate is made upon a machine, will require no hand finishing. I am also enabled to incorporate in a design two similar designs, superimposed one upon the other in a manner to change the entire character of the completed design by reason of the variances in the angles and points of intersection of the lines of the superimposed design and of the primary design; or I may superimpose upon a design developed from one elementary outline, character or base, a design developed from a different elementary outline, character or base, so as to obscure the character of the elemental outline, character or base used in either instance, and vary the tone values throughout the design; or I may insert a number or word design in the body of any portion of the scroll work of the design. Furthermore, I am enabled to make a proof design and a completed design in a shorter time than is possible by the old rose engine and hand work method.
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Edited by jogil - 01/21/2018 10:09 am
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Canada
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Posted 01/20/2018   2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gilles le timbre to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Remember the Spirograph toy produced similar designs ..one of my favorite toy in early 60's
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Rest in Peace
7742 Posts
Posted 01/21/2018   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
...me to.
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