France Or Monaco? -About French Classic..

This stamp is France 1879 25c. The pmk is 18 nov 1883 Monaco. The CV as French single is about 3 Eur used. Is this French or Monaco? Bw. 1860-1886 french stamps were used in Monaco. Are French stamps with Monaco pmk valued separately?

I can borrow your scan and ask on
a small ng with a French colleague if you wish.
That's an attractive brace of french colonies, very nice.

I think it would definitely be worth more - I don't think Monaco was producing its own stamps by 1883, so something like this would be of great interest to those who collect Monaco.

It's also a great looking pair!!

Rod, sure I wish!:)

Done.

First is France post in China(?)-Tonkin 6 June 1906. But has no overprint, so I won`t find it in my Europe catalogue. Approx CV?
Second is in pair, 1900 3c, rather orange, than red, so little CV (about 0,5 eur, no matter paper type). But in pair? (zwischensteg= gutter?)

Your response to the first..

It comes with the caveat, it is, after all just
someone's opinion, and it is worth what
someone is prepared to pay for it.
I have passed on my thanks to Stan (US)
This is his overview from the scan

Rod--this is a French stamp, but many 19th century French stamps were
commonly used in Monaco, as you mentioned. A 1982 booklet by Jean
Pothion is entitled "Marques Postales et Obliterations, Bureaux
Francais a l'Etranger, 1561-1948." The booklet lists this cancel
("Monaco" at the top and "Principalte" at the bottom of the annulus)
as Type E with a Pothion index of 17. My most recent copy of the
conversion from Pothion index to euros puts a 17 at 220 euros, ON
COVER.

My own guideline is that material from this era is about one-third as
valuable off-cover as on-cover. (The 1975 Yvert et Tellier Specialise
gives values for somewhat different Monaco cancels on French
Navigation and Commerce stamps, and most off-cover values are, indeed,
about one-third of the Y&T on-cover prices.) That would put the euro
value, per stamp, about 70 euros. (If both stamps had good strikes,
which they don't to my eye, I'd give the pair about a price about 160
euros.) European catalogues seem to give inordinately high stamp
prices when compared to Scott. For 19th century French material, a
Scott price in U.S. dollars will be about 60% of the euros price in
European catalogues. Using this approach, I'd inventory this pair at
$42 for the left stamp (60% of 70 euros), plus something rather less
for the right stamp, depending on how good you think the strike is on
the right stamp.

Stan

...more on the first one

Hi

To complement and update Stan's comments I would add that Maury
Catalogue 2010-2011 sets a value for this stamp and cancel at 80 Euros.
Market price is about 30% of that but with a large variation. The
market is not very large as most people are not even aware that French
stamps were used in Monaco from 1860 to 1885 and Sardegna stamps before
1860.

Beautiful!


Richard

still more....

Yes Richard this is right! I have the Armand MATHIEU catalogue for
cancellations on such stamps (named type Sage in France) from Algeria
and French Post Offices abroad, issues in 1985! It schould be the best
catalogue for such cancellations.

For Monaco, this cancellation (called type 18 in France) is given for a
value of 250 F (of 1985)... I find this value for common
cancellations in most French Post Offices in Turquey that are
sometimes sell nearly 30/40 €.

Here you have a luxus piece and I think that you can ask 40€ perhaps
50€ for this very nice cancellation ... but you must find a buyer and
this is an other question because collectors for cancellations on
stamps (and not on letter) begin to be scarce here in France!

best wishes and have a good afternoon on other side of the great
ocean!
jean-paul

...and more

Stanley Gibbons do list them separately, and I make this No Z156. CV
GBP 45 in 2006, but I doubt whether you could double that for your
pair given that only one is fully postmarked (if, indeed, anyone pays
CV for anything anyway.)

Chris

Thanks Rod&everybody. Great news, I considered this one at a 3 Eur Cv, but I had a feeling... My Michel mentions only (without giving CV), that till 1886 French stamps were in use. And the number of Monaco postoffice pmk are: 4222 (small numbers, bw.1860-62) and 2387 (big numbers, bw.1863-76). I found none, but I guess this is the difference bw the 2 type of pmk.



and many thanks again!

more replies to your first brace,
(caused quite a stir on the other newsgroup)

Hi Rod,

Monaco used Sardinia stamps 1851 - 1860, French 1860 - 1885, and
started his own "Prince Charles III" stamps from 1885.
There is a page from "Yvert & Tellier Stamp Classiques Du Monde
2005" (sorry not very good scan)

http://cjoint.com/?2dspLve7BHo

You need to recognise first are your stamps Type I or Type II?
There is No: 78a - se-tenant of both Types - very expensive. Hope
you've got this ;)
In this catalogue there is nothing about cancels.

Hope this helps a little bit

Tommy
-----------------------------

to add some more. in my view this is Mi78 - 3.20EUR

http://cjoint.com/?2dsqapdyLs

and

http://cjoint.com/?2dsqb5yWHgk

info from "Michel-Europa-Katalog Band 2 2009 Südwesteuropa"

Tommy

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SG shows the 25c bistre on yellow, wherever cancelled, only for Type
II ("N under U"), and but if Rodney has Type I ("N under B"), ...!

BTW, despite the title of this thread, the stamp is of France proper,
_not_ French Colonies, which would be imperf.

Chris

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> SG shows the 25c bistre on yellow, wherever cancelled, only for Type
> II ("N under U"), and but if Rodney has Type I ("N under B"), ...!


in France too, it exist only one type of 25c bistre on yellow and it is
type II, the value comes not from stamp but only from cancellation!

>
> BTW, despite the title of this thread, the stamp is of France proper,
> _not_ French Colonies, which would be imperf.
>

Yes, but for for French Post offices abroad (in foreign countries) the
"France proper" stamps , that is to say perforated stamps have been
used, I have some from Turquey French Post offices, Egyt also!; you can
also found such stamps with colonies cancellations, that are rarities,
I have not one in my collection!

--
Pour m'envoyer un mail, remplacer anti par droger et manama par
wanadoo; to send me directly a mail replace anti with droger and manama
with wanadoo;
anti.jean-paul@manama.fr
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