India 1852 Scinde Dawk White

Hi,

I have this stamp with me but I am not sure whether it is genuine or not.

I wan't to send it for certification, but I wan't to know whether it is worth sending for certification, but some fakes and forgeries are very obvious.

Thank you

Here are a couple of links to real ones


http://www.harmers.com/catalogue/47...gue_003.html

http://www.sandafayre.com/gallery/stamp_1861.htm

If it did not come with a certificate then I would be very skeptical. If you own it then there is only one way to find out.

Thank you. I guess I am sending it for certification.

But note that there only two certificates worth the paper they're written on for Scinde Dawks: from Royal Philatelic Society Expertising amd from the British Philatelic Association. They aren't cheap, and they're slow, but they are the gold standard for these stamps. I've seen clear certificates for obvious fakes issued by other expertising bodies.

As an aside, if the stamp was mine, I wouldn't bother. I'd assume it was a fake. There are dozens of fakes in circulation for every genuine stamp.

Even the APS ? I have just sent my stamp to APS for certification :(

I'm with tony on this. Unless I was selling, it would not be worth it to me to invest in a certificate. I would just keep looking, checking auction catalogues, and seeking a couple out to see in person at big shows.

I can't make out anything of the embossing on your scan. Your cancel looks a little dicey for the 49-dot cancel...is it 22mm by 19mm, by chance?

All this being said, if you need to know, for some reason, then I wouldn't waste money on anything but the best cert.

[edit: I didn't see your post about APS before posting mine...]

Yes, even the APS. If I was in the market for a Scinde Dawke, and I'm not, I would not buy on the basis of an APS certificate. I repeat: the only two certificates worth paying for are from the RPSL and BPA. You're wasting your money on others. The APS is fine for North American stamps, but Britain is the home to the expertise on Indian stamps.

As soon as I read your post I was sure tonymac would help or I would have said wait for his opinion. He is by far one of the best advisors for India and Indian states in my opinion. I would definatly take the advice especially if considering selling.

Well, I already sent my stamp for now. I guess I have to wait.

Maybe I will send it to RPS again

Sslokhan, if you want to sell the stamp for the best price, wait until your stamp comes back from the APS. Put their certificate away in a drawer and forget about it, whatever it says, and send the stamp on to the RPSL (http://www.rpsl.org.uk/experts.asp), if you believe it's likely to be genuine. However, as I said, there are more fakes out there than genuine stamps. If it had turned up in my collection, I'd just put it away in my fakes stockbook without another thought. I never have that sort of luck - maybe you do!

And you're on my Christmas card list for life, Nitrolures

But seriously: I know a bit about some of the Indian States, but I'm not reliable on India. It's a bit like the way a Newfoundland specialist would know something about Canada. Some knowledge rubs off, no matter how hard you try to ignore it, but you wouldn't claim serious expertise ...

Tmac-- I was trying to get in your will but christmas cards will suffice--lol
Just curiosity what is the value of the said item if legitimate? If known APS certs have been proven wrong would they not go an extra mile to ensure they don't make same mistake again? However I guess once tarnished it would be hard to regain full trust in a particular area.

Well, Nitro, it's pretty hard to get onto my Xmas Card list, and stay there ...

Gibbons list the white Scinde Dawk used at £1800 this year. However, the India market is running pretty hot, although not as hot as China. A nice specimen like this - if it was genuine - could very well sell for over full catalogue. From memory, examples of the two rarer Scinde Dawks (red and on blue) sold recently for very healthy sums.

Certificates are a really tough area. I've seen examples of bad certificates from just about every certificate-issuing body. You'd hope that they learn from their mistakes, but then, they're only human too. And often the damage is done: the certificate is issued, and then the issuing body is alerted to the fact that it made a mistake. Too late, of course, because the bad certificate is out there already - and who bothers to check back on the status of a certificate?

For collectors like us, the art is in knowing where to send items for certification. Generally speaking, the two London bodies are best for British Empire. They're less likely to get things wrong over, for example, Classic India, because they have years of experience with it, and huge reference resources of genuine and forged examples.

Scinde is not in India, but Pakistan but was one of the 1st areas of British India or East India Co.

India and pakistan were one during the 1850's. It was known as British India.

Charles Napier was sent by the East India Company to punish, but specifically not to annex, Sindh in the early 1840s. On reaching Sindh, he found resistance unexpectedly weak, and proceeded to conquer it regardless. Tradition has it that he then sent the one word telegram 'Peccavi' back to his superiors.

Latin scholars will be rolling on the floor already at this bit of wit, but for the others, 'Peccavi' translates as 'I have sinned', or put plainly 'I have Sindh'.

Sadly, it appears this is just a story, and the pun was invented by a teenaged English girl, who sent it to the humorous magazine Punch at the time. Nice story, though.