Batum Scott # 17

Hello again.

Again, I would like to get a second opinion from someone familiar with this issue. I know this issue was extensively counterfeited. So, I visited several sites, and tried to determine authenticity of this stamp. After getting some mixed information, my final decision was that the stamp is original.

BTW, I visited Batum when I was a kid in 1980s, beautiful city.

[NOTE: the below information applies to the original 1919 set. The 2r stamp was NOT part of the original issue. I am assuming the forgery test remains the same, as I see no reason for the plate to have been changed. I am open to correction on that assumption.]

Disregarding the overprint, your stamp is a Type II forgery. So I think it is reasonable to assume the overprint is also fake.

In the genuine stamp, the legs of the "KA" touch each other at the base. In a Type II forgery, the letters are completely separate. I've circled in blue, the area of interest in your pic.



For the record, "KA" touching is NOT a sufficient condition for a genuine stamp. The Type I forgery has the "KA" touching as well.

Some excellent work from Floortrader....

https://goscf.com/t/23696

The test given by Floortrader in the other thread is correct and well-written. However, that test ONLY applies to the Kopek issues and NOT the Ruble issues. There are at least 2 types of forgeries for both the Kopek and the Ruble issues.

These are the two sites I was able to find when I made my decision.

This site http://alphabetilately.com/batum.html does not provide much information, but it does provide a scan of the genuine stamps. And on that scan "k" and "a" are NOT joined on the 2 rub stamp.

This site http://www.filatelia.fi/forglinks/exhibit.html (open page 10) points to the point that can be used to determine the authenticity of the stamp, but does not provide any description. What it looks like, that forgeries have well defined, almost circle, with the round dot inside, on genuine stamps that area is more elongated, not as well defined, and the dot also elongated.

Any other opinions?

I'm preparing a Batum "common" forgery post which will appear in November in the Big Blue blog, but here is a teaser.

Note: Forgery naming nomenclature is tricky, as each author has their own system (Hughes, Ashford, Ceresa).

My naming nomenclature here is based on this nice site...
http://www.numonesidentifier.com/country/1/



1919 Scott 17 2r salmon pink (Genuine)
"Scott 17" Type II Forgery

The left stamp shows the genuine 2r salmon pink.

The right stamp has a forgery overprint associated with a Type II forgery stamp.

Some of the characteristics of the forgery overprint as compared to the genuine are...
• The lower portion of the "B" is larger
• The front leg of the "R" is more curved than the original
• The "I" is raised compared to the "R", and seems slightly tilted
• The "S" is larger
• The "H" does not have the little serifs
• The "U" seems tilted
• No serifs on the "A", "T", and "N" of "Occupation"

Since forgery overprints are always found on forgery stamps (And genuine overprints are always found on genuine stamps), it follows that the left stamp is genuine, and the right stamp is a forgery.

But let's examine a "Ruble" denomination without the overprint.



1919 Scott 4 1r red brown (Genuine)
"Scott 4" Type II Forgery

Note that the "Ruble" values have 7 dots over the right value tablet for both the genuine and Type II forgery stamp, so no help there. The "Kopeck" values have a 6 dot (genuine) vs 7 dot (Forgery I & II) difference, so quite easy to differentiate.

Still, the Type II forgery has a few obvious differences compared to the genuine.
• White paper
• What I call the "curved branch" sign. Note the third branch (of the six branches) counting from the left is quite curved (compared to the genuine), and the space between the third and forth branch is hence narrow. This field mark is quite easy to pick up. This is true for all Type II forgeries (Kopeck and Ruble).

There are a myriad of other differences which I will explore on my blog (and other forgeries), but the differences noted above should help.

In regards to the KA being joined...

One will note that my example is joined, while danko's example is not joined.

What's with that?

The 6 subject transfer block for the 2 Ruble value (Scott 17) shows 4 with the KA joined, 2 not joined. Reviewing all the Ruble values for the 1919 "British occupation" issue (Scott 16-20), finds 20 subject images with KA joined, 10 not joined. Therefore the "joined KA" sign is inconsistent.

(1993, R.J. Ceresa's "The Postage Stamps of Russia 1917-23, Volume 4. Transcaucasia, Parts 13-16, British Occupation of Batum")

IMHO, Danko, your 2r salmon pink looks genuine.

Thank you for that information.

In that case, the information in Tyler's Focus on Forgeries is in error, and so am I.

Thank you for the correction. I will make a note in Tyler's book.



Congratulations. I stand corrected.

k

Batum 1919 Scott 1 5k green
Genuine, Forgery Type I, Forgery Type II

khj, you were only following Tyler's excellent information in his books which I love and find a real help. (I only have the 1993 edition which has nothing on Batum.)

But confusion abounds with the Batum forgeries, even with the Scott and Stanley Gibbons catalogues.

The old catalogues had it right. But Batum forgeries are rife, and when the images were switched to color (around 2003 for Scott), so appeared the forgery stamp images.

The Classic Specialized 1840-1940 catalogue has the Forgery Type I image for the Scott 1 5k green, and the Forgery Type II image for the "British Occupation" overprint Scott 13 5k green. The SG's British Commonwealth 1840-1970 illustrates the SG 4 1r chocolate (Scott 4 1r red brown) with Forgery Type I.

To Scott's credit, this will be changed in the next edition.

I got a story to tell about the BATUM stamps --------Years ago [about 40 years ago} I was at a major stamp auction in New York City and viewed a lot,it was a shoe box filled with thousands of Batum stamps with many in sheets and part sheets and it was it was stuffed .I didn't think much of it because the opening bid was $100.00 and if real cataloged about $1500.00 at the time but seeing the opening bid ,I wasn't interested in fogeries. Then during the auction nobody bid on it at $100.00 with a room full of buyers with many dealers .As he kept lowing the opening bid it got to $30.00 so I put up my bid card.
So since I was selling mixture boxes and thought it would be nice to throw in 5 or 10 Batum stamps into each lot I sold ,so out came the scissors and made packets and blocks for each box .I sold thousands of them over a period of 5 years ,never thought much about it .Years later I got the book FOCUS ON FORGERIES ,that book explain the real ones and fakes and realised that I sold thousands of them half forgeries and half real .I only held a few dozen for myself .......im sure im not the first dealer thinking he's selling fakes and many were better stamps in each mixture lot ...lol...

This topic is very interesting as I myself have a few stamps from Batum. I wish that I have collected more but I missed out but I made it up in other regions I read the threads closely I'm have obtain info that is very important. Will post scans

Good story!

Jkjblue

Thank you very much for such an excellent information. This Big Blue blog you mentioned, I assume it is an online resource. If it is open to the public, do you mind to provide a link, I can't wait to see your complete work on this topic.

Being a novice collector it doesn't cease to amaze me the level of expertise that people like you and many others here (to long to list everyone ) have.

http://bigblue1840-1940.blogspot.com/

Sure!

Thanks danko!

Another excellent effort by Jim, a.k.a "Big Blue"

Jim, I do not know if you have the following article on the "Alloe Tree" stamps in an older issue of the Journal of the Rossica Society of Russian Philately:

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00020235/00055/81j

It contains useful information on genuine and forgeries, although the author's classification of forgeries appears to be different from that of others. Hope it is useful in your endeavor.

"Aloe Tree" Batum Scott 1-6 (SG 1-6)
Original/Genuine



Thanks Vasia!

Nice review!

With your interest in Russian Philately, if you come across other articles about the "Aloe Tree" stamps of Batum, please alert me.

more from my collection-----