Collecting The First 100 Years - Scott Intl. Junior Album

I'm not a WW collector, but I am curious about something. How do you deal with countries that have a high fake/forgery history? Do you include, in your libraries, specialized philatelic literature for specific areas, to help weed out problem items? Do you just not worry about them? Or do you leave certain areas empty until you feel safe to fill them?

I personally like to research and detect forgeries/fakes if I am aware of them and have the philatelic information/resources to do so.

See as an example...

http://bigblue1840-1940.blogspot.co...onduras.html

But reality is if you are covering the classical world, one is by definition not a specialist, and one cannot know at the level of a specialist.

So forgeries, reprints, and fakes in the collection?

And being blissfully unaware?

Of course!

When Jim first started his Big Blue checklist I played around with converting it for my own use into an Excel spreadsheet (as a first step in getting the data into my preferred database program, Filemaker/Bento), but I gave up. The problem beyond my laziness is that many spaces in the International album can be filled by more than one stamp (or by no stamp at all, but that's another story!). Jim has come up with an elegant way of showing that information as freeform text but it makes it difficult to parse into columns. Another problem I didn't resolve was how to keep feature that I really like about the checklists and that is when a series/set is split between multiple rows.

But anyway, thinking of how this might be done and taking Denmark by way of example, here are the first two spaces in Jim's checklist for the 1870-79 Numerals:

16 2s gray & ultra ($20+)
25* or 25c 3o "blue & gray" in BB, gray blue & gray in Scott ($10+)

(The * doesn't signify unused but rather there is a note relevant to Scott 25.)

What would be the best way to parse this information into rows and columns? One possibility would be something along the lines of the following (where Country is column 1, Year is column 2, etc.):

[Row 1]
Country: Denmark
Year: 1870-79
Scott #: 16
Description: 2s gray & ultra
Valuation: $20+
Notes: (1) Numerals wmk 112 (rounder crown) Perf 14 X 13 1/2

[Row 2]
Country: Denmark
Year: 1870-79
Scott #: 25 or 25c
Description: 3o "blue & gray" in BB, gray blue & gray in Scott
Valuation: $10+
Notes: (1) Numerals wmk 112 (rounder crown) Perf 14 X 13 1/2; (2) 1895-1901 Scott Perf 13, wmk 112 issue stamps, and 1902-04 Perf 13, wmk 113 (wider crown) issue stamps are ruled out by BB for dates! Specifically...41 3o blue & gray ($5+); 1895-01 issue, wmk 112, perf 13 and 41c 3o blue & gray ($2+); 1902-04 issue wmk 113, perf 13

Now most of Jim's notes and comments aren't that extensive, but the above example does show that there would need to be massaging to make the checklist fit into spreadsheet or database format.

Lastly, from a practical standpoint, most collectors will no doubt want to indicate whether they own Denmark 25 or Denmark 25c. Actually, most collectors (not me) may want a way to notate whether their copy is Mint/Used, a spacefiller that needs to be replaced, etc., but perhaps that is best left to the individual to add columns as they need.

I never did come up with a solution to easily convey the row information.

Anyway, even though I was too lazy to do it on my own, I would be more than happy to be part of a group effort if others are interested.

Thanks Bob (1840-1940)

Boy, that BB Checklist example is so complicated, it even made my head spin.

What happened with the checklist is, for the countries Aden-Ethiopia, I was doing an annotated checklist. Although chalk full of information and notes, I believe now it is "Too much information".

Beginning with the Falkland islands, the checklist became "simple". Any notes ( marked with a *) are now after the checklist.

Here is a recent example for Honduras...

Checklist
1865
1,2,

1878-89
30 or a, 31 or a, 32 or a, 33 or a,
34* or a, 35 or a, 36 or a,

1890
40,41,42,43,44,45,
46,47,48,49,50,

1891
51,52,53,54,55,56,

Next Page

1891
57,58,59,60,61,
62,63,64,

1892
65,66,67,68,69,70,
71,72,73,74,75,

1893
76,77,78,79,80,81,82,
83,84,85,86,

Much easier to read, no?

The format follows exactly the stamp spaces and rows as laid out in the '69 and '97 edition Big Blue pages, and should be very easy to understand while viewing the BB page. I also eliminated any valuation information in the checklist, but do list stamps with valuation >$10 after the end of the checklist.

Note that there are two stamps eligible for each of the 1878-89 spaces. This is a common occurrence in BB where different watermarks or perforations with major Scott numbers, as an example, are telescoped into one space.

FYI- The "34* or a" notation refers to a note after the checklist which says: "I included the ABNC reprints (1889-Seebeck request), as BB admits them based on date, even though they differ somewhat in BB's requested colors".

Jim, sorry, I should have acknowledged that you went minimalist at some point and that should make it easier to parse your checklist into a spreadsheet.

Perhaps at some time I could reformat the Aden-Ethiopia checklist to "Simple". That would help if anyone wanted to try a spreadsheet.

I don't think there is any need for you to do anything with your earlier checklists. There is enough information there to develop a spreadsheet (although there are more comments than probably should be inserted in a spreadsheet.

I am going to take a shot at developing a spreadsheet template this weekend - but then I have to figure out to attach or insert it in this forum

Thanks very much, landoquakes, for your responses to the questions - all rather interesting answers. I am going to start responding to the questions in from my perspectives today in a series of forthcoming posts to this topic.

However, I do want to state that I feel that you are seriously underestimating the cost of building a complete BB collection. Many of the stamps are worth far more than 5 cents, and a collector may have to buy a lot more stamps than there are spaces if he/she is buying collections. Anyway, I shall provide my estimates in this string of posts.

Getting back to the questions posed by drlimaye...




I was particularly influenced by Bob's (1840-1940) "Filling Spaces" blog using the Scott International part I Album. There was already a good deal of information about the contents of the album there. And he opined the need to have a checklist for the Blue, and that is something I thought I could do. That is the short answer.

But there is much more to the question...

• Big Blue is particularly good at providing spaces for the less expensive classical stamps. Still, one needs ~34,000+,a difficult task. But BB does provide a do-able, if challenging, road map through all the classical countries.

• And if one collects to the album (As Bob (1840-1940) is doing, and drlimaye has done), one has a chance to accomplish the task without emptying the wallet. If one collects to the Scott Classic Specialized catalogue, and one wants any degree of completeness,it will be helpful if your name is Bill Gross.

• The weakness of BB are the thousands of inexpensive stamps that were left out, as well as ignoring watermarks - certainly an important part of the British Commonwealth issues.

• The Minkus Global Supreme has more spaces, so a real alternative. But I initially felt there were too many stamps on a page, and- like it or not- the Minkus catalogue system is no longer viable IMHO. And sadly, I have not been able to see a Global Supreme in person.

• The "Browns", the Scott/Vintage/Subway stamps albums- much more comprehensive than Big Blue- is a real alternative, and several members of our local club use them for their WW classical collection. I have a reference set. They literally have not been updated though for 80 years. Still a strong contender.

• The Stamp Album Web pages (the "Steiner" pages) are PDF pages one can print out, and the classical set is complete and up to date, based on the Scott catalogue. A True bargain ($25-$40). The down side are the many pages/albums one will need for a complete classical collection. But there is no doubt it is the best choice if one wants to have a space for every major Scott number found in the 1840-1940 (1840-1952 British Commonwealth) Scott Classic Specialized catalog.

More later....

Thank you for your post, scb, and your compliments. Just to correct the numbers, I was fortunate enough to start with a larger number - my estimate is that my major purchase of a Volume I collection in 1987 was about 30 to 40% complete; that would equate to about 10,000 to 13,000 stamps initially, plus I had a couple of thousand more from earlier efforts. So perhaps my "build up" was a little more modest than you have estimated. Nevertheless, it was a big effort to go from the 13-15,000 in 1987 to 33,000+ in 2012 - an average of about 700 per year. I shall provide information on my efforts when I answer the various questions listed in my first post.

And I found your blog quite interesting. My goal is to prepare something like that for my collection.

I have not counted the number of mint versus used stamps in the collection. In my collection, some countries are predominantly mint; others mainly used; others quite mixed. There is no apparent theme regarding what types of countries are easier to collect in mint vs. used. The one important fact to note is that mint stamps almost always cost a lot more than used.

I would have liked to have all mint stamps (personal preference), but I " inherited" many used stamps in the large collection I purchased in 1987, and did not want to spend any time trying to replace them. I focused on building the collection, and since, in many cases, the mint stamps cost a lot more than the corresponding used ones (and often are more difficult to get), I decided not to focus on mint only. I searched for either mint or used, whatever I could get for the various spaces. When the price difference between mint and used was high, I elected to focus on looking for the used.

I am going to start working on a spreadsheet to catalog the collection and may have the answer to your question - in a few years!

I think that is the crux of the problem. I am at the point where I either buy country (or regional) collections, or pick up stamps for empty spaces more or less individually. Both approaches can be costly. Lots of duplications with country collections. Individual stamps can be at a high percent of CV.

Then there is the dilemma of needing a few stamps in the set, but the stamps only seem to be sold in a set.

As far as the retail "worth" of stamps in BB, Earl Apfelbaum recently offered a 30,000+ Big Blue for ~$10,000, or 33 cents/stamp.

Bob of Filling Spaces blog fame keeps a running counter of his costs.

So, although the stamps in BB are overall "reasonable" in CV, trying to obtain them without incurring extra costs can be difficult.

While I recognize that there are countries with a high incidence of fakes and forgeries, I completely agree with Jim's comment that it is not feasible to become an expert (or get expert advice) regarding the stamps for each of the countries. For example, Japan is a country with a large number of forgeries in the early stamps. When I built my Japan collection (separate from the Big Blue), I spent a lot of time studying (and avoiding) the forgeries - as a result, the early Japan part of my separate Japan collection is rather incomplete. But that is not easy to do for all countries (wasn't easy for Japan either). So it is conceivable that all my stamps are not genuine and I am, in Jim's words. "blissfully unaware" of the ones that aren't.

I am very pleased with the activity on this topic, which was started just yesterday.

I am now starting to answer the questions posed in the original post.




When I started collecting stamps as a kid in India, I had a small worldwide album and did not know anything about Scott, Minkus, Gibbons, etc. or about stamp catalogs and prices. I had no particular focus, just collected anything I could lay my hands or spend my pocket money on. I was introduced to Scott catalogs when I came to the US for my higher studies. I initially started focusing on collecting US stamps and used the Scott catalog as my "bible" for the collection. I was also focusing on my former home country India and Indian States. As I built up my India and States collections, I realized that the only album for these stamps was the Minkus album (this was in the early 1970s - Scott did not make the India and States album pages until much later). So my initial India and States collections were in Minkus albums and the US in 2 Scott albums.

Around this time, I looked for worldwide albums as I was also collecting a number of other countries. I looked several options at doing this, I realized that Minkus was not a good option because most US dealers used the Scott numbering system. I had a difficult time assembling my India/States in the Minkus album using Scott numbers.

When my US and India/States collections were in somewhat reasonable shape, I started looking worldwide. Scott seemed to be a good option because:
a. Scott had the Classic Specialized catalog that had the whole world in it (for 1840-1940)
b. Most dealers and auctions that I was familiar with (mostly in the US) used Scott numbers.
c. Minkus was getting very difficult to work with (based on my experience from the India collection)
d. At that time, I was cataloging my worldwide stamps using the Scott Classic catalog

Around this time some of my fellow collectors introduced me to the Scott Big Blue and the Brown. And someone said that you could complete a worldwide collection of the first 100 years (1840-1940) for US$150-200,000. I had no idea if that was a reasonable number in early 1970 (probably not) - I did know that was a staggering number for me to consider. I have always been fascinated by trying to achieve a "complete" collection, however that is defined. So I gave up any ambition of trying to fill the Scott Brown as being well beyond my resources; the idea of Scott Blue seemed more practical and I decided to give it a shot.

So I started filling out a Scott Junior Volume 1 album. For many years, this was rather sparsely filled as I was focusing on US, India, Indian States, Ceylon, China, Japan, etc. Then in 1987, I was fortunate enough to purchase at an auction a Scott International Volume I collection that appeared to me at that time to be massive (it was 30 to 40% full and had many of the "obscure" countries). So my interest in the worldwide 1840-1940 collection increased by an order of magnitude and while I continued on the other specialized collections, completing the Big Blue became a passion. At that stage, considering any other albums was not a practical option.

So that is a long answer on why I chose the Scott Big Blue. Looking back, I feel that if I had to do it all over again (and knowing what I know now about other albums), I would most likely do the same. I should add that for a long time I never beliveed that I could actually complete the BB album or come as close to it as I am now. So the practicality of completing the Scott BB was not a major consideration (although it was a hope). But now that I have almost done it, I can definitely offer that as a good reason for others for the selection of this option for a worldwide collection of the first 100 years. Yes, there are some drawbacks of the BB, as has been pointed out by others already, and individual collectors may have certain preferences and criteria that may lead to another choice. But none of the other options is perfect.

Enough rambling on this topic. I am glad I was able to do this while watching the Presidential debate today - it was rather boring so it was possible for me to write this.

Note that according to Bob's blog (1840_1940) a Big Blue was sold by Kelleher auctions for $21,240 - see

http://globalstamps.blogspot.com/20...1240-in.html

I think it would be interesting to know if Apfelbaum were talking about 30,000 different stamps, used or new, the correct stamps in the spaces, etc.