Canada 12 Penny Black

I agree the first image is a forgery. Here is a scan of my plate proof to look at:

Stallzer

Your expertise amazes me! The Vincent Graves Greene Foundation would not dare make such a claim without looking at the stamp and analyzing it with its machines.

http://www.greenefoundation.ca/expe...nd_fees.html

Do you also provide signed certificates when you provide your expert opinion?

I will tell all my Canadian philatelist friends not to bother with the Greene foundation and send you a scan instead.

It's wonderful having experts such as yourself on this forum. Keep up the good work.

Why are you such a condescending person ? Didn't your Mother ever tell you if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing ?

All I said is that it looks good to me. Please point out where I claim to be an expert. Go away..

Let me try this another way.

Rabbit

The only way that you will be able to determine whether or not you own one of the rarest and most valuable Canadian stamps is to send it for expertizing at the Vincent Graves Greene Foundation .

http://www.greenefoundation.ca/expe...nd_fees.html


There isn't a single person who could state without looking at the stamp what Stallzer has written:

1.


2.


Stallzer, you seem to be saying that your are not an expert. Usually when people make unequivocal statements there is a suggestion that the person knows what he is talking about.

In the event that the stamp is real then a torn specimen would still be worth a lot of money. Have you ever seen the British Guiana 1c magenta. I have , and its condition is definitely not F-VF!


When I read your posts I thought you were joking. Forgive me for thinking that.Now I know you really meant what you said. And I'm saying that I would only accept that the stamp was real if it were certified by the Vincent Graves Greene Foundation.

My belief is that it's real. If you're hell bent on making this personal than I'd expect nothing better from you. Someone email me when this person stops posting here.

Nothing personal.

If someone asks a question and another party responds incorrectly, then I will point out that the response is incorrect.

I will only do this if I have expertise in the matter or can recommend an expert who can be of assistance.

If anyone out there disagrees with the following comment I would appreciate hearing from you:

The stamp shown appears to be a cut-out from an album page and is unlikely to be the real thing. However, since I only have a scan to base my opinion on, there is one sure way to find out if it is real and that is to contact the Vincent Greene Foundation.

If the Foundation certifies it as a damaged copy of the 12 penny black, do not under any circumstances toss it out.

That is my advice. Problems with the above, let me know.

Stalzer had many opportunities to back down from his initial statement that the stamp was real.

Insult me all you want but it is important that people who ask questions on the forum be given the best advice possible.

For the most part I don't think I could be definitive in my answer in either way from the scan that we have. I have tried to clean up the photo that we have. The only thing I can come up with is the color is wrong from everything else I could find on the web.

Thus I really do not know but would lean maybe not real.

One more try to post a larger image.

Trying not to piss anyone off here but if this stamp was proven to be real (and the Green Foundation is probably the only way to prove this), what do you think this would sell for? I mentioned before that individual pages of Action Comic #1 can sell for almost $1000, even when Superman is not on the page. Pages with Superman sell for much more. I never see stamps in this poor a quality ever for sale (for a good reason) but due to the rarity (if it is real) there would be a market.

I could see it selling for $500 if it turned out be real. Out to lunch estimate? Too high or too low?

Hi Rabbit

With fewer than 1500 copies of this stamp being issued 162 years ago it is not worth the risk of tossing your example in the recycle bin. Believe me that there are a number of collectors who would rather have a ratty looking example of this rare stamp than nothing at all. If I owned the stamp, I would submit it to the Greene Foundation for examination where we certify the authenticity of the item (the certificate will note the condition as well). If you spend the $40, you will know for sure. The submission form and instructions are online at www.greenefoundation.ca
That is my two cents worth
GJP

It is better to have this stamp in this condition as a space filler in a collection than not to have any such stamp at all.

I agree with Gportch:

For $40--send it to Greene Foundation (or any other reputable group), to get it authenticated or not.

I'd to it no matter what, because its either a great forgery (which has some novelty value) or its real.

Do let the community know what you find out...

There is absolutely NO WAY to determine the authenticity of rabbit's stamp without seeing it or (preferably) sending it to the Greene Foundation. I could easily print the stamp shown by jamesw from my computer, cut it out and take a bad flash photo, and it would look far more genuine than the photo provided by rabbit.

It is certainly important to keep the stamp if genuine, it could have characteristics that determine it's plate position, a re-entry, etc.

To assist a new convert could someone help my understanding of this subject.! Was this a commonly forged stamp, what time period would the forgery have been produced, would the forgery be for the philatelic market or for normal postage.?
Rabbit, I understand your dilemma as I am currently sorting through my Gf's albums and are loathe to chuck anything out.! I would give it a special 'place' and just muse about the origins.! After all it is a true family 'heirloom'.

I happen to be lucky enough to have an original copy of this stamp. One way to tell if it is authentic is look at the back of the stamp. On my copy, the laid lines are quite visible-and that is a good test.