Who Owns My Scanned Stamp Images?

Sorry about that lorddenning but I when I read that
post of yours I didn't see that you lifted that sentence
from the quote box above.

There is no indication that your items (1) and (2) are
quotes.

Deleted

This is and has been a great thread for me and for others I am sure!

At the beginning I was going to go ballistic lifting images out of photobucket and putting them on Pstamps or Picture stamps etc.

But at the same time was a bit worried about the 80 odd pages of images I have stored with photobucket.

It is very nice to know where I stand with images on photobucket. We have always treated images as belonging to the poster and it is nice to know for sure that this is correct.

A thank you to all. KGV

Looks like someone picked up his marbles and went home....

Art

Copyright law is one of the most confusing and therefore misunderstood areas of law.

If you take a picture of a copyrighted object (such as a stamp), you own the copyright of the picture...but you do not own the copyright on the object (or the image of the object). So even though you may own the copyright on the picture, you may not be able to do anything (such as publish it) without violating the copyright on the object itself.

If you take a picture of a stamp that is copyrighted (and I assume that it would be...I'm not sure) and then you post the picture uh...say HERE...you may be violating somebody's copyright. In reality, most likely nothing would ever be said about it.

Confused yet?

To get the image below printed on my Pstamp or picture stamp the Printer of my submission had to get an answer from Australia Post legal section before they would print it. To that Printers knowledge no one had submitted a stamp for a Pstamp print before. It was the age of that stamp that made it printable.

[URL=http://s424.photobucket.com/user/Is4stamps/media/5a3d249f-fa58-48ae-b8ca-3dcc50d2b122_zps115eb2ae.jpg.html"][/URL]

Had no trouble with this one. It was made by us to celebrate 100 years since Australia's 1st stamp. The building is where the stamp show was held in Australia to celebrate 100 year of our 1st stamp.

[URL=http://s424.photobucket.com/user/Is4stamps/media/b7d0fe4b-e8ff-4737-a050-73d7faa3963f_zpsf4d745dd.jpg.html"][/URL]

But this one I purchased from a private source, who was not related to the image in any way. This thread makes me wonder where I stand selling & showing this Pstamp.

[URL=http://s424.photobucket.com/user/Is4stamps/media/30cebb10-1b04-433f-9df2-3d0d6473da2c_zps2f6b37e2.jpg.html"][/URL]

What can you do, commercially or not, with your scanned images of copyright-free stamps, such as USPS stamps issued before 1978 (or 1971)?
Can you upload them to photosharing sites like unsplash?
Can you design T-shirts, etc. with them on a site like Zazzle?

In my opinion making a few t-shirts for personal non-commercial use would not be questioned or land you in hot water. But if I were investing much money for any kind of commercial use, I would want a licensing agreement. Also note that USPS itself may have existing licensing agreements with a stamp's design or content (i.e. Disney) and I assume that this would limit commercial projects for some stamps.
You can learn more about USPS licensing here https://about.usps.com/what/busines.../welcome.htm
Don

Yes, Don.
I had discussed with Ellen, licensing agent for USPS, and she said that copyright starts in 1978.
Would that mean that one can use commercially at least some of the older stamp designs?

Also, other copyright attorneys said that copyright for American stamps starts in 1971, not 1978.
A truth cannot be contrary to another truth, within the same frame of reference.
Which year is it?

An old USPS web page (available on WayBackMachine) on stamp collecting includes the sentence:

"All U.S. stamp designs since 1978 are copyrighted."

This may simply mean that a copyright symbol was included in certain marginal blocks from this date onwards but it could also mean that the USPS copyright was only asserted from 1978 onwards.

This is consistent with the following note in Wikipedia Commons regarding US stamp images:

"Note that US stamp designs since 1978 are copyrighted by the United States Postal Service, and not in the public domain. Up to the end of 1977 the designs are all PD in the US."

I will stick with ".gov" as opposed to Wiki.

Fair enough, but these sources are not in obvious disagreement.

Just because US stamp designs before 1971 are in the public domain doesn't mean that a design from 1972 is necessarily copyrighted.

I do not think anyone needs to worry about images unless they try to profit from them. Then if someone wants to claim copyright ownership you will hear from them. It is always about money. There are copyright violations all the time. The bigger the company the bigger the target (deep pockets).

For example, I posted some images of the APS show in Richmond that I took here on SCF. I even watermarked them. They ended up in two different philatelic publications. One publication cropped the watermark out and the other printed as is. I was not asked for permission.

Some of the statements in the Wikipedia article are not accurate. Between 1971 and December 31, 1977--from the creation of USPS to the last day on which the 1909 Copyright Act was in effect--stamp images authored by USPS were eligible for copyright protection, but specific formalities (such as publication with notice) were required to secure protection, and few copyright owners took these steps. Therefore, USPS could have protectable rights in stamp images from 1971 to the end of 1977, or might not--a business intending to reproduce these images would need to conduct research and obtain specific advice.

After January 1, 1978, which is the effective date of the 1976 Copyright Act which governs US rights today, the 1909 formalities requirements went away. Works created on or after that date are presumptively subject to protection. Enforcement in the courts still requires obtaining a registration certificate, but one can be obtained the day before a lawsuit is filed, even for old works. Therefore, a business cannot rely on the absence of a record in the US Copyright Office's online searchable catalog to say that a work is in the public domain.

Furthermore, a business conceivably could transform a stamp image, originally authored by USPS, in a manner sufficient to satisfy part of the four-factor test for fair use. See Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon, Inc. [and Google], 508 F.3d 1146 (2007), in which the Ninth Circuit held, in part, that Google's copying of original photos and creation of 3% size "thumbnails" was fair use. Again, individualized advice is needed based on the specific product plans of a particular business.

(This is not legal advice to anyone. If it was, it would be accompanied by a bill.)