I Did The Research

however, I appreciate all the remarks and opinions and facts people have given me. My local stamp dealer also told me I would get a paper of authenticity and I would have that for proof and the value would be a stable value. I could also charge in the sale of the stamp the cost of the appraisal....then I could also put it up for sale on sights like this. If it does sale on ebay I would give the person all the information I have gathered on this stamp. I would not mislead him, and second if it does not sale I will have a appraisel/authentification done.

You can't look to Scott catalogs for identifying reprints, fakes and forgeries. Also Scott does not provide values for THESE reprints because they were never valid for postal use, not having been produced by the Papal postal authority. Maybe they are worth something as curiosities or to stock someone's "fakes" library for use in identifying the legitimate originals, but I doubt its going to be much value.

But by all means send them in for identification if your research is inconclusive (as recommended on this board and in the VPS reference I gave you).

If you really did your research you would research what "reprint" means for this issue, for example, by reading the "REMAINDERS AND REPRINTS" section of the reference I gave you, which is:

http://vaticancitystamps.org/rs.htm...%20FORGERIES

Here's an excerpt (highlights are mine):

"By November of 1870, shortly after the fall of Rome, the dies, plates, and cliches used to print the Papal stamps were sent to the director of posts in Florence, where a Signore Usigli somehow came into possession of them. In 1878 he made reprints of the 2c, 3c, 20c, 40c, and 80c. in colors resembling the original stamps. He also made other fancy printings of all the stamps in the same color. Usigli sold the cliches to Bonasi, who passed them on to Moens, Gelli, Tani, and Cohn, all of whom made reprints. Usigli was the only one who kept the original continuous horizontal lines [Fig. 10] but his reprints can be distinguished from the originals by the color, paper, and gum. The reprints of other printers may be recognized by their horizontal dividing lines that interrupt the vertical and by their incorrect perforation (Gelli and Tani did print a very few copies accurately perfed 13, but the perforations on the reprints are cleaner and more well defined than on the originals.) Ninety percent of the reprints will be detected by their perfs and/or their dividing lines. The others can be sent in for expertisation until one has had enough practice to make himself his own expert. In brief, the points to look for are these:

Originals will have irregular gum with tiny cracks; be printed on shiny to dull paper; conform to Bolaffi's color classifications; have very rough-looking perfs 13 or 13¼; and exhibit horizontal, continuous dividing lines.

Reprints will have smooth, usually yellow gum; be printed on shiny paper; not conform to Bolaffi's color classifications; have regular looking perfs that are usually not 13; and exhibit vertical, continuous dividing lines (except the Usigli reprints)."

I know what a reprint is, I have been working on these at my leisure for four years. I am not a stamp geek. What I know about reprints and have already stated to you was that they still have value to the right customer. Stamps are only as valuable as what they sell for to the customer that is in demand of what you have. Scotts puts a value on these, but you most of the time for most stamps are not going to get that price from a customer. If I have stamp worth scotts value at 1800.00 but the person or persons will only pay 500.00. That is the value of the stamp. If this is indeed a reprint it will still have value if a person wants it. I have seen collectors sell there iffy stamps that are worth if genuine 700.00, they give the consumer the option of buying it at a discounted price, like I did. Scotts value it over a thousand. I am starting at a hundred dollars. Collectors that collect this specific state in Italy may want this stamp even if it is a reprint. Like I said, reprints can and do have value. Now thanks for all of the specifically directed at this stamp, but any negativity or low blows are not needed.

Agree, reprints can have value, but...

Your ebay listing doesn't acknowledge that these are reprints. It reads as if they are originals, despite several members providing you ample excerpts from several references indicating that they're not.

Example -- "...they are the real deal. Scotts price this block over a thousand dollars. Many experts agree these are original, the real deal!"

I find it really strange guys: a heated discussion about stamps that have never been shown to anyone (the picture presented belongs to a different member, not the topic starter).

This is the ebay auction associated with the image provided by Scotzm, and the one people here are referring to:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Italian-Sta...em2c7c8b0602

Is this your auction listing, Gregorin? If not, you should provide an image of your block.

Have APS evaluate the stamps first. I wouldn't sell it on ebay until I got the information.
Tom

Personally I would never list this block/stamp that way, I think I would just be setting myself up for an unhappy customer and/or would be facing a return situation. Anytime there is any question as to the exact catalog number I think it best to describe it that way, Catalog #14(?) and make it clear to the buyer that there the possibility that without a cert the stamp(s) may be in question.
don

Its downright dishonest as worded and the OP should be ashamed.

Well, I will not change the wording to make all of you happy. If it is a reprint they have still gotten a good deal. I am honest enough before the sale is final to tell the buyer that he may want to get it authenticated because there is a possibility it could be a reprint. However, I will also tell him, that I had a stamp dealer tell me it was the real thing and then refer him to the gentleman if needs be. So to all of you sorry for ever starting an account on this sight. It is my business, If I do something wrong I will deal with the consequences. Nothing I said was dishonest. If I dont get it authenticated and someone bought it for a hundred dollars and he got it authenticated and it turns out to be genuine, then who's loss is that? So all you Egocentricals, I no longer need your advice. Anyway I am in the process of trying to find someone that can authenticate it while it is still listed on ebay. I have alot of options on ebay, I can always cancel the transaction and repost it. But You dont see what I see when I hold it in my hands and compare it to originals. I am not interested in any more comments on my business. After all, all you dealers beat the guy that comes in with valuable stamps for a couple hundred dollars telling them they have nothing worth while. I have seen it time and time again. So please no more hypocritical posts.

And thanks again for all the helpful posts.

Pretty funny post. You've become the equivalent of someone that walks into a room, blows a big fart, leaves and lets everyone wallow in the smell. You come here posting a scan of some stamps trying to verify the authenticity, don't like the responses you received and are now telling everyone to take a hike.

Many here are very passionate about the hobby and it is irritating to see sellers lying about their product and I agree with the above post stating the dishonesty. Without a credible certificate these must be treated as reprints or forgeries so to flat out state that they are the real deal is a lie. Luckily for you ebay will do nothing about your listing but if karma is in action here then no bids will be placed on the item.

Step up to the plate, get them certified yourself instead of dumping the task on the buyer.

I Second STALLZER posting , just dishonesty

Gregolin,
I was going to stay out of this, but this struck a nerve.
We are passionate about our collections. This very forum is for those of us passionate collectors to share and help each other. The first big flaw in your story is the statement that you had many experts tell you it is the real deal. Most of us that have been around as long as I have, have dealt with many dealers. I can tell you with 100% confidence that none of them would make that statement. They would say something like "it's looks good, you should get a cert on that". Their reputation is on the line.
My second problem is if you are so certain it is real, why do you try to mislead your buyers? If you do get a cert, there really is no fast way that I know of on Italian stamps. Plan on the process taking at least six weeks.
You also claim the dealers tell someone their collection is worthless to take advantage of them. I can tell you that most of the stuff brought into dealers from inexperienced collectors is in fact junk and most of those sellers think they are sitting on a goldmine. If they do buy it, they will box lot it out at best. They really don't want a bunch of boyhood collections. They are in a business to make money. They have overhead and expenses. I hope they make money or they will soon all be gone. Then I will have to buy my stamps from inexperienced and misleading sellers.
So yes, we are a passionate bunch and we want to preserve the integrity of our hobby.
Pat

FRAUD