Us: Scott Type A29, 1861 24c Washington. Help With Colors

I've nearly put myself underwater over the past couple of weeks, but I couldn't resist because of the deals I have been getting. I have yet to receive these items yet, so the pictures are from the auction.

I bid on these assuming the catalogue numbers and descriptions were accurate. Other than that, I ignored the old dealer/auction tags (I didn't pay these prices - or anything close to them).

Being color-blind, I am unable to accurately identify the colors. I would be grateful if one or more of you could verify the catalogue numbers for me.

Thanks!

Brian

The first and third are brownish, so 70a fits.
The middle one . . . I would have to guess is Pale Gray Violet (70d)

Rileysan,

Looks like you picked up some nice stamps! I hope you'll update this thread with scans when you receive the stamps. I'm a color specialist, and I have a color collection of US #70/78, so I'll do my best.

Your first stamp almost certainly is a red lilac (#70), but it could be a brown lilac (#70a) depending on the accuracy of the image.

The second stamp appears to be gray (#78b). It's not far off from steel blue (#70b), but I don't see enough blue.

The pair of stamps appears closest to lilac (#78), but either the image quality is too poor or the stamp color may be faded, so this one is hardest to judge.

Here is an image of my #70/78 color set:

Brian....
I viewed those also.
Top looks great.
Bottom pair is on a NUTMEG card....
Those are they stickers they use.
I agree with the color shade....but I do not like
the right perfs on the right stamp....
definately reperfed.
Look at the back view and compare right to left vertical perfs.

Rileysan,

If you're color blind I wouldn't buy any 24c 1861 without a cert or without an extension for a cert. Period. These stamps are notoriously difficult to identify by shade, probably more so than any other classic US stamp with the possible exception of the 3 cent.

Based on the scans that I am seeing, and assuming they're correct... I like the top one as a Red Lilac. The middle stamp, from here, looks like a grey or greyish lilac. The bottom pair could be Brown Lilac or Lilac, I would need to see them in person to tell for sure but I am leaning towards brown lilac.

The 70c and 70d, both of the violets, are printed on a thin, translucent and hard paper. Also, a Violet needs to have a true purple haze to it. A True Violet should look purple (In fact the press called the new 24c stamp Purple back in 1861) and a pale grey violet should look like a cross between a grey and a violet.

That being said, IMHO, the Pale Grey Violets are nothing more than faded violets. Also, a good chunk of so-called and certified 70b stamps are color changelings. As far as certs go, I have seen plenty of 24c 61s with certs that were misidentified but at least having a pse/pf/Weiss cert is a very good way to back yourself up.

Thank you for the input - all of you!




Kevin, you may be correct. I bid under the assumption they were scissor-cut (possibly when cut from the cover). However, the final price was less than $40 for the pair so I won't be returning them unless I find some sort of major flaw!

Bill, your advice is really helpful! I currently do not collect shades of this issue. I was merely looking for upgrades to the two stamps in my album - 70x and 78x - which my Scott Platinum album only has spots for one of each, and none of the color varieties (I am not actually sure my current 70 & 78 are identified correctly anyways). I have been tempted to bid on some of the more expensive varieties in the past, but always chickened out. I know my limitations! Interestingly, the steel blue variety stands out to me - at least I think it does ...




It all makes sense now - Jimmy Hendrix was a stamp collector!

Brian

Brian,

Under $40? Sheesh. If you don't need it even with the faults I'll pay ya a profit on it. (I lost my pairs for my plating project in Sandy).

What I think I forgot to mention is that I've seen these misidentified even by the PF and PSE, particularly the lilac/red lilac/brown lilac shades.

I'd say that the first stamp works for the #70 spot and the second one works for the #78 spot. Careful shopping should find you a quite presentable #99 without spending 4 figures (assuming you're wanting to fill that hole) as I've picked up a few nice ones for $4-500.

You're right about steel blue, a true steel blue is a very distinctive shade and a beautiful stamp, the trouble is that for every real steel blue I see I must see 5 that aren't steel blues being sold as steel blues. Basically, people selling $50 stamps (what an oxidized non-70b is worth in otherwise sound and reasonably centered condition) as $900 stamps.

I've been collecting these for over 10 years, they can drive you nuts!

If I ever get tired of them, I'll keep you in mind :)

As for Sandy, my heart goes out to you. How bad were you hit?

I find it somewhat ironic that my opening sentence in this thread was about being "underwater"!!

Brian

One of two in that set I have yet to fill (#99 & 101)! Based on my personal observation of price and availability, I'm beginning to think that the 30c value (#100) is not as scarce as Scott indicates and the 24c value (#99) is much more scarce!

I have one more that I purchased, but I didn't pay too much attention to it until now because it was tucked into a larger lot. Can you make a determination on color based on this photo?

Thank you!

Brian





Keeping in mind I bought this lot expecting that the 24c value was reperfed on the left side, and the 2c coil pair is likely a forgery. I bought the lot specifically for the stamps on the bottom row ...

Out of curiosity; what makes the 2c coil pair a forgery?

Scott states the following about just about every washington/Franklin coil:




Based on that alone, I pretty much treat all coils from this era guilty until proven innocent.

Cat value for imperf pair (#344) is $8.00, coil pair (#393) is $130.00

I see two problems with this pair:

1) The imperf sides are not perfectly parallel to each other.
2) The perf holes seem a little too round for my liking.


Brian

They are not perf 12 (are there private perforations?). Used pair of imperf is worth ~$2, used coil pair is worth ~$200.

I should note that I am using a 2010 catalogue in my office. The cat values I quoted are not up-to-date

Thanks, Im gonna have to get one of the Scott Cat's. I found a 2008 for 12 bucks, may have to get that. My software catalog doesn't have all the extra notes.

And I was using prices based on the Swedish Tiger website which can be rather variable, but the point is made either way.

FYI any Scott catalog after I think 2006 is printed in color...if one is in the market for reference.