Do You Get Your Money's Worth From The APS

I really like the idea of having the videos and presentations available online. If its a revenue stream they need, then offering these online for a small fee could be huge. Imagine if every Club decided to play a video at a meeting from the APS online collection for, say $5, it would be a big plus to the bottom line. I know my club would do it.

I think the magazine alone is worth $45. At $3.75 an issue that's a pretty good price.

Use of the APRL (library) is the only other service I have used and that's been helpful.

Obviously they need additional services to attract members and the suggestions so far are good ones. I too would like to see these:

- Revamped APS that focuses articles to different level of collector (beginner, intermediate, specialized) as too much of the mag is devoted to long postal history articles (which are fine once in a while).
- Some sort of online access to expert advice (forum/chat room)
- Online seminars and associated digital library
- Revamped marketplace (I never buy there as its not competitive with ebay)
- Discounted supplies (by marketing agreement with suppliers), e.g., mounts, album pages, stock books etc.

You succinctly identified the problem.

On April 26, after reading the president's column in the magazine, I wrote an email to Mr. Reinhard, Mr. Haimann, and Mr. Hotchner about my views on the APS and stamp collecting in general. On May 6, Mr. Hotchner responded (the only response thus far) and acknowledged the problem: APS is a choice. If I choose to not renew my membership, cancer research will continue, my church will continue to function, the Boys and Girls Clubs will not lose any programming, and on a hobby note, my stamp collection will not suffer.

I do like the organization. I like what it offers and I think the dues are reasonable, so I will continue to support it for the foreseeable future. But the fact is nobody NEEDS the APS. It is a choice and if money gets tight, I can eliminate those dues and suffer... nothing.

They need to figure out ways - and I don't have the answers - to become more important collectors.

A final note. In my email, I noted that the American Topical Association is experiencing some growth. Mr. Hotchner noted that he believes it is because more new collectors are topical collectors. And then defended the APS retention record and noted that their surveys say loss of membership is usually related to retirement, loss of job, or other loss of income.

The ATA thing though.... Vera Felts, the ATA executive director, was at the Nashville show in March and talked to many attendees about the ATA. There may have been other factors that brought her there, but I think that makes a difference. Certainly, I can't recall seeing a member of the APS professional staff at a local show before.

Just something to chew on.

I know this post was for members and excuse me for posting but I would say I side with Rileysan. There is hardly anything you can not find on the web somewhere and I believe that you can find the help and advise that is needed here on SCF. Where else will you find experts(I call gurus) like you here helping so much with the hobby we love so much free of charge because they love doing that. Doubtfully! I mean heck we have Bill Weiss not taking away from anyone here that even post and along line of very knowledgeable people not just US Stamps. I may be a Newby but there is not place quite like this place anyplace around this place. Thank you.

Rileysan literally took the words right out off my mouth in his post above. I joined the APS in 2012 after one year I saw no reason to pay another years dues since the only thing I got out my membership was the Linn's magazine. I dropped it Linn's last year too because it got to where about 80% of the Linn's magazine is advertisement.
I don't ever plan to re-instate my APS membership. The APS cry's they have lost members and they are financially strapped yet they have built million Dollar buildings to house there Libraries and other paraphernalia in.
I'd rather put my $45 membership fees into buying stamps from Stamps2Go.

The same way I was a supporter to SCF but since they dropped the Market Place and buddied up with ebay. I will put that money into stamps also.

I think I mentioned before that I was a member in the '80s and dropped out because I was too busy with other things and received no benefit.

Now I have time and work on my collection, but I have no money because I was laid off (after more than 35 years) 15 months ago. Now, I have a new job at a fraction of the salary and will barely have money for stamps, let alone dues for such an organization.

That said, I have a couple of questions that arose from this thread.

There is praise for the APA research library. In what ways, specifically, in a nutshell, has it been valuable?

Who is Bill Weiss and what did Newby Stamper mean "we have Bill Weiss?" How so? In what way? What does he do?

I certainly like the idea of the APS developing online resources and chats for ALL levels of collecting. At stamp shows when I have met some so-called premier collecting types, they are sometimes aloof and, frankly, a bit too snobby.

This can by no means apply to everyone. For example, I have listened to Ken Martin at a couple of shows and found him to be very down to earth and friendly. But that is how the entire organization needs to be - in touch and available with collectors of all sorts, with through old-school methods or through new technology.

So, I guess the bottom line that perhaps this thread is asking, is give me five good reasons I should re-join the APS and spend those annual dues.

Good discussion, folks. Please keep it up!!

Hi,
I joined two years ago right after I jumped back into the hobby. I had some issues of the mag beforehand, and I found some of the articles to be extremely interesting and diverse - and frankly not at all what I had expected. I have not used any of the services, but still find the mags worthy of the annual dues. I'm not saying I'll be a life member, but as long as the mags have worth to me, I'll hang in there.

Art,
In my opinion the APS has not stayed current by offering freely available, on-demand delivery of information. This has not been an easy transition for many industries and hobbies; but those with deep roots where information equals money (like philately) have had a particularly difficult time. A perfect example is APRL; even with paid membership the APS has additional charges for accessing this information.

The Global Philatelic Library (which APRL is a part of) is a step in the right direction but has fallen short of being what is really needed in this day and age. Instead of developing an open source information sharing specification and common meta data database schema they have instead developed a web front end that ties together small parts of their respective databases for direct profit only.

We all understand the value of freely available, on-demand delivery of information. This forum is just one good example of the benefits.

Art, as you probably know this perspective has met with a lot of resistant in the past (for example in the old VSC forum). Some folks start feeling threatened, particularly authors and others who have made a living charging for information. There will always 'be a market' for good or new information but this is now an incredibly competitive market. For example, a co0mpany like Amos is nuts if they think for a second that they will be able to continue to charge for access to a simple printed 'catalog'. What value does a catalog have when it requires 'special knowledge' to understand the true value of a stamp when it is becoming easier and easier to determine this information freely and on-demand?

Organizations like Amos and APS are going to have to transform away from the old model of charging for access to information to that of adding value to information access. Any organization that does not offer people a way to freely access much of the information they need in real time will become a dinosaur. Any organization that has not figured out how to add value assisting people is customizing this information access will simply wither on the vine. Of course maintaining an entity like a large library is an expensive proposition; it is a given that organization like APS have to develop new alternative revenue streams. APS would do well to closely examine how the traditional printed media industry has been transforming and see what can be learned.

I didn't vote in the poll because I am no longer an APS member, chances are you missed some feedback from others like me. After coming back to the hobby and being a member back in the 19702 and 1980s, I made contact with APS about renewing my membership. They responded quickly and professionally to my first inquiry but never bothered to follow up with me. Not that I expect them to chase me around but I would think that a person like me would be considered 'low hanging fruit' for an organization with a declining membership. There is a wealth of good information to be gleaned from those who are no longer members.
don

Bill is a noted expert on classic US stamps, an author on the subject, runs his own expertizing service http://www.stampexpertizing.com/ (the best bang for your buck imo), gives seminars for the APS, and is a contributor to SCF. His credentials really are too numerous to list! One could even argue that it is not in his best (financial) interest to offer opinions in an online forum, but he does it anyway (free of charge). My only thought about it is that the man is a junkie and can't resist!

Bill is not the only person of note, of course. There are some exceptionally knowledgible collectors here who, I might add, resist the urge to call themselves experts. I respectfully disagree. There are probably a dozen SCF members I would classify as experts!

Coming full circle - I have learned more on SCF over the past 3 years, than I had learned over the previous 30 years of collecting.

Finally, I want to mention that I am NOT a critic of the APS. I have never been a member, and therefore have nothing to ctitique. My point is simple - sell me on the APS! Tell me what I'm missing out on! Give me a reason to join!!

Brian

As a recently 'returning' collector and non-member (and non-voter), I have been contemplating joining so I find this discussion timely. I assume that they have an expertizing service as one benefit, is it competitively priced with say......Mr. Weiss and equally as reliable? If I may ask, How do they charge you for access to their library? Charge for physically circulating a reference (I'd expect to pay shipping)), or for performing research for you? By luck of geography I am within reach of actually visiting it a couple times a year if I choose to. I would probably join just for the mag and I don't find the Stamp Store pricing to be outrageous (just browsing...) some better deals come off ebay of course, but then I didn't see anything priced at $9,999,999.99 either. John

I absolutely, positively, 100% agree!

If you don't believe it, just ask the encyclopedia makers how successful their efforts were at creating pay-for-access websites. Wikipedia, run by volunteers, put them ALL out of business!

Right or wrong, people expect to find information for free. Don's comments are simply mirroring the marketplace. Google, Yahoo, wikipedia, Facebook (and all other related social media), et al have perfected business models that give their services away for free and let the advertisers pay the bills.

Don is right - If the APS (might as well mention Linns and Amos) wants to servive, they need to change their business model. Period. If they wait too long, a "wikipedia of philately" will eventually put them all out of business.

Brian

Just speaking for me, one of my collections is newspaper and newspaper tax stamps. This includes the Scott listed material but most of the collection is not listed in Scott. This includes newspaper railway stamps, newspaper wrappers for postage and/or private shipping, and the like. The information I can obtain from a Google search is somewhat limited the more specialized I become, however the APRL has material that does help me extensively with the non-Scott portion of this collection. I am about to go on vacation, and they are holding a book they are going to ship upon my return that focuses on newspaper wrappers from England, Scotland and Wales in the 1800s.

But with my other collecting areas, with the exception of some Haitian postal history (and my friends at the Haiti Philatelic Society usually can help me), online searches and databases can resolve most of my queries.

It is important to note there are fees for the APRL. This is copied and pasted from the site:
Base Fee:
$10 per shipment/request (includes up to 15 minutes of staff time)

Books:
Base fee plus $3 for the first book, $1 for each subsequent book, and $.25 per page for any photocopies; late fee of $1 per week if materials are not returned or renewed by the due date

Photocopies:
(without any books) 15 copies included in the base fee plus $.25 per page afterwards

Extensive Photocopies/
Research Requests:
After the initial 15 minutes included in the base fee, $20 per hour, billed in half-hour increments

Scanning:
$4 for the first page; $.25 per additional page.

Fax Services:
$4 for the first page; $1 per additional page.

Non-Members:
Add a $5 surcharge to fees above.

Addresses outside U.S.:
Additional fees for non-U.S. addresses may apply.

Thanks to Brian and ecmorgan for the replies. All very interesting. But, as Brian says to those who support it, "sell me on the APS."

(My one contact with them in recent years was a little more than a year ago when I contacted the APS in regards to the novel I was writing; I thought the APS might offer some help on a simple item. I didn't really need help from the APS, but I thought it would be a plus for the hobby. I offered a book acknowledgement in return. I contacted them twice and received no response, not even a "no thank you." I was disappointed.)

centerstage, I can't sell you on something that is probably 50% intangible. You've seen some of the tangible benefits. As I said, the APS magazine (not Linn's by the way) is worth the price of membership to me. I like to have something light about stamps I can relax and read at my leisure or take with me to lunch for a break. I spend all day on the computer, then hit various forum's and its nice to do something (edit: not on the computer) when I'm too tired to drag out the actual stamps.

The APRL library has helped me access articles and obscure books that would have cost me hundreds of dollars to purchase myself. They charge a fee of course, because no one's time is or should be free, especially folks working at the APS. The last shipment I got two books for $14. I figure my time is worth more than that and would have spent that much and much more in time looking for information or asking someone on a forum.

I may take advantage of the Stamp Store, the insurance and the ID/expertizing services in the future.

Hmm, that's five things, although the first two plus the intangibles are the clincher for me. The intangibles for me are twofold: First, supporting an organization that represents a hobby I really enjoy and want to keep thriving is one way I can insure my collection retains some value in the future (to put it in a purely selfish vein, though that is not my motive). Second, its gives me a deeper feeling of belonging to a larger group that has a more visible footprint than a stamp forum or a local club could.

If you don't feel the intangibles, no amount of selling will convince you. But certainly if money is tight I probably wouldn't spend it on the APS as intangibles at that point are a luxury.

Thanks, Hungary. A well conceived and presented answer. My memory of my old membership is that I, too, enjoyed the magazine. Since losing my career job 15 months ago I have had to make many cutbacks so I will have to ponder it.