Do Auction Houses Falsely Report Sales?

I saw a stamp recently puchased at auction for a stated $10,000.

The receipt I saw for the purchase at that auction was $7,000.

Is this common among auction houses?

Well I'm sure they do although I couldn't prove it, but more than likely that receipt you seen was was probably before the fees from the auction house. Any auction house worth their salt won't want to sully their name by doing anything shady like that. Without more information it's really hard to tell exactly what you saw. -Jeff

Agree with I.L.S. ,more information is needed . Auction houses play all kinds of games . They are no different than any other business ,they need to show a profit . Not sure about how other firms to it ,but at FLOORTRADER STAMP AUCTIONS CO. our policy is to separate you from your money at the highest possible level .WE ARE GOOD AT WHAT WE DO .

Most reputable auction houses publish Prices Realized after each auction. These prices have always matched the price I paid for my occasional successful bid.

Q/ What means 'stated'? In a press release? In the prices realized?

Q/ Any chance that the buyer in auction #n re-sold the item in auction #n+1?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

All the above said regarding more details needed, some auction houses definitely play games with "prices realized", especially those that aren't really auction houses, but rather selling primarily their own inventory.

For example, you can NEVER rely on either prices realized or sold status of anything from either Aldrich or Apfelbaum. Both of those "auction houses" (and I use the term loosely) recycle/retread the same tired lots auction after auction, even lots that show up as "sold" at Stamp Auction Network. I have my suspicions about Regency-Superior as well.

Revenue Collector:

Do you think your point about lots that show up as "sold" being recycled in later auctions could be because buyers are returning them after purchase because they don't match the original description?

I've had generally good experiences with Apfelbaum over the years (they have always honored their "no questions asked" return policy), but I do think they could do a better job describing their lots.

Revenuecollector ----I purchased about two dozen lots from Regency and been to 10 live auctions and found them honest and friendly to deal with ,no problem with what I seen elsewhere . Honest descriptions and very open bidding .

I've bought many stamps from Mike Aldrich over the years -- not at auction, but from his "buy it now" listings on ebay. I've never been unhappy with a purchase. Also, although he conducts the occasional auction (maybe one a year), I don't think he can be considered an "auction house."

Just anecdotal evidence - I have been bidding in a number of different auctions since I restarted collecting earlier this year, just to test the waters and get to know the quirks of each auction house, and have not noticed any discrepancies between the realized prices published by the auction houses and the prices paid for my winning bids.

As for the auction houses themselves, I have had generally good experiences to the point where I trust them sufficiently to think that any such discrepancies are inadvertent or explained by some element maybe not readily apparent other than deliberate obfuscation. My experience would cover Siegel, Regency Superior, Harmer-Schau, Kelleher, Apfelbaum and a few others. Of course, there is wide variance in terms of elements such as quality of material and comprehensiveness of descriptions, and my attitude is always buyer beware. But I have never had a problem with any of these guys in terms of returning items that for whatever reason did not meet my expectations.

If they take returns, what happens to the returned items/lots? Is it not obvious that they will simply relist them?

I'll correct myself. I checked his website, and Mike Aldrich apparently conducts more auctions than I realized or remembered. But I still consider him a good source for U.S. revenues.

Based on my experience working for a major auctioneer a number of years ago, yes SOME auction houses report sales that did not occur. It is considered a "no, no" but like many other things, it happens. I suspect most auctioneers handle returns differently depending on the reason for the return and whether it is owned by the house or consigned to them. They may relist it with a new description, they may re-offer it with the same description, they may sell it privately, they may consign it to another auction house, or they may return it to the consignor.

64idgaf,

was the receipt and the prices realised in the same currency.

It seems to me that the $ 7,000 was in US $ and the $ 10,000 in Australian $ after the extras had been added on.

US$ 7,000 is about A$ 8,100 and a 20% premium on top of that would make it US$ 8,400 and postage, insurance packing would add maybe another $100 making it US$ 8,500 which is about A$ 9,800,

Pagoda

I have been involved in buying/selling quality antiques, and not-so-quality antiques at auction houses for a number of year when I owned antique businesses. I personally know auction house owner as well as auctioneers. As most of you have learned and know, not all actions are equal. I've dealt with "honest" auction houses as well as the not-so-honest ones. Basically, as floor trader says, their goal in life is to get as high a price as possible for any item sold---and not all items will sell even if you think the auctioneer "sold" it to a bidder. Whether or not the auction house owns the item(s) or whether the are on consignment form another owner, they are not too likely to sell below what the "reserve price" (whether stated by the auctioneer or not)is. They are not there to sell at a loss. ALL auction houses, "honest" ones or not, use "House Numbers" (several)--bidder numbers not assigned to any buyer present, by phone or internet, that the auctioneer will use to announce "sold to #xxx" when an item(s) fail to reach the price level wanted. Now, if an item(s) reaches that level, then item will sell to the "highest" bidder. Auctioneers will also use those numbers to drive the price up on any bidder(s) who are actively bidding. One thing I learned rather quickly, do not let the auctioneer or house know if you really want something---they will drive your bid up. Its best to preview if you can and to determine what your top dollar bid will be and stick with that. It never failed that I would see unsold or house-bid sold items reappear in the next auction(s) at the same house. On really top end items that are on consignment, for the most part, good auction houses will tell the bidders before bidding begins if there is a reserve, and announce when the reserve is reached during bidding--but this isn't necessarily always to happen. Like any other transaction, its buyer beware--know what your bidding on and what you're willing to pay. Although I don't bid at the major auction houses, I have bid on some mail auctions in the past. I've always been suspect about "final prices" being really final prices from competitive bidding verses what one puts down as your high bid. I'd also be concerned about stamp auctions where I'm not there observing and participating in bids on items I wanted--that may be unfounded, but that's how I see it. I'd expect stamp auction houses practices are similar to any other auction venue. I'd like to think otherwise, but I doubt it is so. One last observation; again in my experiences with antiques, auction houses, at times, do favor frequent attending buyers and those who tend to spend a lot of money at a given auction

No major Stamp Auction House is going to sell an item for $ 7.000 and list it on their prices realised at $ 10,000. The vendor would see the figure on the prices realised and would receive his payment less commission based on that price,

Pagoda