Will Stamp Collecting Survive?

Myself - I am groovin' on you radio there. That is a sweet one!

Came across this thread. The question in my mind is what will be the scenario when I am old. Suppose I live till 80, I still have 64 years to collect stamps. When I'm 80 will there be any stamps left to collect?

I'd just focus on hitting 17...you can worry about it later!!

Actually your right- mdroth.

I'll live the present as it is.

If you are a worldwide collector, there's no reason for despair. You can easily collect 20-25,000 stamps each year for rest of your life and still not reach completion, LOL.

(the math behind in nutshell: there are roughly 10k different new issues coming out each and every year. In addition there's the 800k+ face different stamps released since 1840. And if you live healthy and active life, you can always aim for the 2-3 million additional minor/major varieties that catalogues list).

That's the path I'm travelling...

-k-

Hi folks. As a relatively young (47) dealer who is relatively new to the trade I want to express agreement with much of what has been said here, offer my perspective as a dealer and explain what I am doing to try and promote the hobby.

I completely agree that youth exposure is essential to hobby's long term future. I read through the thread about how old people were when they started collecting. While a few respondents did start late in life the overwhelming majority started as children. Not only that, but they were guided and mentored to a degree by people who gave them stamps and knowledge, but who connected with them as well, and also knew them well enough to know that there was a good chance they would be interested. I would hazard to guess that even those who started late had enough exposure to stamps to know that it was a viable hobby that would interest them. The whole concept of getting young people into the hobby is something that receives a great deal of lip service and half-baked actions that really have not amounted to much, which is why it is still viewed as a hobby for cranky old white men.

Why? Probably as a result of a preoccupation with the financial end of the hobby: most kids aren't big spenders and a lot of dealers ignore them or are impatient with them. I myself was mistreated by almost every dealer I ever did business with in my youth and it has very greatly shaped how I view the hobby. Stamp exhibitions, as someone pointed out here are geared now to the rich collectors who can afford the rarities only, so the hobby has become completely corrupted by money. It's just another way to show off now - at the very highest levels, and that's not good. Especially now that the current millennial generation faces crippling student debt, few good jobs and huge mortgages. They aren't going to have the same amount of money to spend on expensive stamps than previous generations had. The last thing they want is to get involved in is yet another financially competitive pastime in which they can be made to feel insignificant.

I think Don's idea that technology is key is right on the money, although I don't think developing an app is the first step. I think that has to come after interest has been developed. I think social media is key: Instagram, Pinterest, Tumblr - these are all sharing platforms that are picture rich and text light, and have millions of viewers a day. Young people don't like to read reams of text like what I'm writing here unless they are interested. So creating galleries of beautiful stamps that can be scrolled through on a smartphone while that young person is on the bus or waiting in line or otherwise on their phone - that is they key. There will be kids who will look and be bitten, just as we were. But we have to acknowledge that their phone is how they interact with the world. To complain about it and ignore it is pointless now.

But, I think that a shift in parenting styles is also needed. As good as smartphones are for looking up information, it is important for parents to cultivate patience, perseverence and curiosity in their children, or at least an appreciation for the world around them. It is natural for children to be interested in the broader world, but parents have to start actually paying attention to their kids and not letting them spend all their free time in front of the computer. It really is a dereliction of duty for parents to do this because they are too busy. Someone pointed out that parental involvement is essential, and I think they are 100% right. I think parents should be requiring their children to spend at least some time each week developing interests that are not all about instant gratification. It is our duty to tell our kids when they are failing in their duties as a parent. I know it is taboo, but the reality is your kids are always your kids, just because they are adults and have the freedom to make their own choices, it is always a parent's prerogative to express their concerns, especially when it involves other members of the family, i.e. their grandchildren. You have to pick you battles, but a generation of children growing up without patience is not good.

To that end, the quality of involvement is critical. If you are forcing your view of the hobby onto the children you are trying to introduce to stamps, if your being impatient as in "oh no! you'ere doing it wrong, you should never hinge a stamp!", if you overwhelm them with information, or focus on showing them what is interesting to you and you go on and on about it, you will lose them. I remember when I was 6 or 7 my best friend at the time was a man that I only knew as Mr. Langford. Mr. Langford was born in the 1890's and was well into his 80's at the time I met him. He remembered the Small Queens from when he was a kid. Mr. Langford taught me so much about the world" rock, paper, scissors, the circumference of a circle, kite sailing (I was disappointed because I thought he was taking me hang gliding!) and so much more. He never talked down to me and he never went on and on about things that he knew I wouldn't understand or be interested in. He would be a hit with any young person today. If he had collected stamps then I'm sure it would have been him that got me into the hobby first before my dad did.

It has been said on here that the hobby also needs to change and again I agree. I think we need to stop taking it so seriously and lose much of the elitism and collective ego that has seeped into it. We need to stop destroying modern mint stamps from the 50's and 60's and start treating them with respect, because doing so sends the wrong message to people and it shows a complete lack of appreciation for stamps, and again, it shows how corrupted by money the hobby has become. If your sole decision rule for deciding whether or not to keep or destroy a stamp is how much money you can get for it, then I would suggest that you really don't love stamps as much as you think you do. I can remember the first time I learned that my 5c and 6c commemoratives from Canada were still valid for postage. I told my dad. Do you know what his response was? "If I catch you doing that, I will take your stamps away from you because you clearly don't appreciate them enough to have them.". That had a very profound impact on me.

We have to become more polite to outsiders. We have to stop chastising people who go to a stamp board and ask what their stamps are worth or whether that common 5c stamp is really the rage Harding that's worth $20,000. I know it is annoying and gets old, but you know what? Every person who does that is potential future collector. If instead of mocking them and being rude to them as I see so often on Facebook, the answer instead is "well sir/madam, while there are many valuable stamps from that time period, I'm afraid yours is not one of them, but is beautiful, don't you think? It is a lot of fun to collect these and learn about their history.If you want to know why it isn't particularly valuable, I would be happy to walk you through it." Can you imagine how much better an image the hobby would have if we answered this way? Another thing we need to stop doing when an outsider actually does have valuable stamps is pounce on them with aggressive offers to buy. It is inappropriate if that person hasn't indicated that they want to sell, and makes us look greedy and opportunistic.

So what am I doing about it? Well, I've put my money where my mouth is, literally. I've said in other posts on this board that I gave up a 6 figure partnership role in a Toronto accounting firm to make less than $30,000 a year (at the moment) and take on a lot of debt to become a stamp dealer. If I never make more than enough to service my debt, that's fine. I've chosen my calling in life. I started a blog to take my 41 years of stamp knowledge and publish it online for free. I started a thread on the 1972-78 Caricature issue on this very forum to share my knowledge. I post in depth articles to it religiously, every single week and each one takes me 6-10 hours to research and write.

I built a website: www.brixtonchrome.com, where in addition to the blog, and my inventory, I have over 40 web pages which includes all the information a beginner could want about why the hobby is cool, how they can choose a collecting area that will suit them, what they need to get started, where they can find it, other websites they can visit, etc. I've done all that in 10 languages. Is it a perfect site? No way - it is a work in progress. But it exists and it is a resource that is optimized for smartphones.

I've done all this because I believe that we all have a responsibility to pass on whatever has been good to us. I don't believe that is prudent or responsible to assume that things will just magically preserve themselves unless we take steps to make it so. Just look at what we have done to the environment. How well did assuming that it would all magically clean itself up work out for our kids and grandkids? I think is is the same for this fine hobby of ours. Will it survive? It is up to us collectively to make sure it does.

Hi Brixtonchrome
I am not sure that social media is a panacea. Facebook (FB) is not only has unanswered personal data and other ethical questions, but it also has turned into a 50+ year old venue, basically todays AOL. While the number of teens using FB has seen a significant drop in recent years, the number of FB users aged 65+ has doubled. Last year Pew Research Center number showed a substantial number of FB users (42 percent) have stepped back from daily activity and engagement. If online dealers wanted to stay abreast of younger people, they would need to constantly chase whatever the latest social media venue happens to be. This represents a huge time suck although I guess if online dealers had a number of <25 year olds to tap into they could make it happen. Stamps and postal history typically attracts people who also have a historical interest or perspective. It reminds me of family genealogy; while few young people seem to have an innate historical interest this can change as they grow older. But I concur with your opinion regarding a parents role; it is important that parents expose their children to history and the importance of understanding our place in it.

Regarding today's dealers and their use of technology…I think that dealers are still figuring out how to transition to online. I am not talking about selling, I am talking about supporting.

Rhetorical questions that online dealer should be asking themselves…
1. How do online dealers use technology to replace the face-to-face services that traditional brick-and-mortar dealers offered?
2. How do online dealers assist the multitude of 45-60 year olds who just inherited accumulations/collections. Again, not talking about buying it from them , I am talking about converting them from stamp owners into stamp hobbyists.
3. How do online dealers offer help to noobs who have basic questions?
4. How do online dealers use technology to facilitate painless returns?
5. How do online dealers use technology to help hobbyists get certs for stamps they buy from them?
6. How do online dealers use technology to offer hobbyists education on-demand instructional videos?
Online dealers to implement real-time or near real-time technology for these kinds of service.

Online content is a help, but it is also a constant time suck. Online dealers cannot post some content and let it sit static of months at a time. It has to be constantly updated if the expectation is maintain traffic and attract new hobbyists. Stamp Smarter several thousand pages of content, it is nearly a full time job and maintain these and also develop new content. This link
http://stampsmarter.com/features/revisions.html
offers a good overview of what it takes to do this.
Don

Hi Don

We do it by putting a lot of time and energy into building and maintaining a state of the art website. It is a full time job. It really is. So is social media management.

The conclusion I have reached as a dealer after 3 years is that I cannot succeed without a staff of at least 2 employees so that functions like social media marketing and content production and website updating can be done, in addition to the myriad of things on my plate.

I'm doing my bit, but the real question and thrust of my post is "what are collectors doing to give back to the hobby?". From my observations, not much. That is why I believe dealers are important to the hobby: because if dealers don't provide what you are describing it will never get done. Collectors have had just as long as dealers to produce online resources for collectors, but have they? Some have, but they are very few and far between, and most of them use outdated website code that makes their sites look like they are from the 1990's.

I have given back over 1500+ hours per year for the last 6-7 years. This donation includes time developing Stamp Smarter and moderating this community. Many other hobbyists, as can be seen in this and other online communities, invest much time in helping each other.

I find that some stamp hobbyists are umm, 'thrifty'. Some will always based buying decisions upon asking price, just as some folks will always shop at WalMart. It is not clear to me if this is a group worth pursuing. If I were a dealer, I would be seeking to differentiate myself with service and support.
Don

Agreed, Don. I wasn't suggesting that you aren't giving back. Obviously you are and you know that and I know that. But you must admit that you are the exception rather than the norm. I agree that I should generally differentiate myself with service and support and that is indeed what I am trying to do.

BTW, what is wrong with my picture? I looked better then (5 years ago) then I do now, LOL!

The other thing is just look at how rude and condescending many were towards me on the catalogue value verus market thread. There is no call for that and it really pisses me off when those same people immediately revert to being polite to you because you are the moderator. What? I have to earn basic civility, even though I was not rude toward them? This is a huge problem that will drive many people away from this hobby. I've got a thick skin and I've made a lot of sacrifices to be a dealer, but if it gets to me, then what do you suppose it does to a newbie?

Brixtonchrome brings a lot of energy to one of our favorite perennial topics.

(One wonders if discussions about The Future of The Hobby will easily outlast the hobby itself.)




Q/ Taken any kids to a game store, a clothing store, or a sports store lately?

I see kids from the local junior high mobbing McDonald's every day.
If they brought PBJ sandwiches to school, the cash they could direct to stamps would put them on the road to owning a really nice collection in no time at all.

But they are going to spend their money on what matters to them, like hanging-out with their friends.

Trying to compete with all that body-pleasing fat, salt & sugar is gonna be a hard slog ... notice how many of us eased away from The Hobby when the little bits of paper were in competition with our newly-raging hormones.




Most grownups do a lousy job of talking to kids. You (correctly) cite a lot of the mechanics - such as not scaling an answer to the child's age & interest - but treating this as a special failure of (other) stamp dealers will take us further from a solution, not closer.




Different exhibitions assign different weights to rarity; feel free to lobby for a re-weighting, but (you are a dealer, right?) remember that rarity does not, of & by itself, translate into price.

Several of our forum brothers are pursing exhibition topics that are more about patience-and-effort-over-time than throwing their money around, and you should feel free to lobby for new exhibition categories based on budgetary limits.




Q/ Have you seen what they spend on coffees & avocado toast?




Q/ Have you seen this happen here? Lately? Often?




Q/ Tried this, have you?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (who hopes he sounds more like he is engaging than arguing)

Bill Steiner? The people digitizing philatelic literature for StampSmarter? They've done more good for the hobby than anyone since H. E. Harris, I think.

Well Ikey Pikey, my son doesn't have kids yet. But you can bet your bottom dollar that if and when he does if I see him making bad parenting decisions I will tell him. He's not going to like it, just like he didn't like it when I punished him when he stole change out of my wallet. But you know what? We moved past it, and he learned from it. I did my job.

I wasn't saying that the poor communication skills with kids is just dealers its all of us in general.

The whole coffee and avocado toast thing is a made up myth tossed around by baby boomers who don't want to acknowledge that today's youth have fewer opportunities than they did. Even if it were true, it is not inconsistent with what I've said. If you are up to your neck in student loan debt and can never afford a house, cutting back on coffee is NOT going to make enough of a difference. I'm sick of this Wealthy Barber drivel. It was book, written to make money for the author. That's all. It's core premise is that if you can live according to unrealistically rigid standards you can get rich by having a low paying job. It's not true for most people. That coffee may be the only thing that keeps them sane, but I don't believe the whole meme is real for most millennials. My point was that most kids don't have as much money as you think they do, so they are not going to be the big spenders.

Codehappy loves to argue for the sake of arguing, and loves to point out the few exceptions to the general observation I've made. I never said that no collectors are giving back to the hobby, just that most are not. Most only enjoy the hobby for themselves, and that's fine. But what it means is that there won't be much left when they are gone. Worthwhile things require maintenance and I'm simply saying there hasn't been enough of it yet for us to say definitively that we have saved the hobby and ensured its future. That's just my opinion.

The stamp collecting community is one of the most helpful hobby communities I've ever been involved with. Of course, a lot of the good stuff happens in 3-D or private e-mail, except in places where we meet to shoot the breeze.

As for calling the community rude, I guess you haven't been to other stamp message boards yet. This is probably the nicest, friendliest one.

And, I mean, when you say something so flagrantly wrong, don't you expect other people to disagree? I'm not the only one in this thread pointing out that collectors are the ones keeping the hobby alive, and have been for decades.




This really hasn't been my experience, but I'm not from your neck of the woods. Maybe you don't see many collectors where you are who are very active in supporting the hobby. See: I can give you the benefit of the doubt just fine.

And if I sounded "rude" or "condescending" in the other thread: sorry, that really isn't the intention. Anybody who claims there is such a thing as "investing" in stamps gets pushback from me, it's true -- but you can't deny why. Speculators were toxic to the hobby in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and they'd be toxic to the hobby today (ask me my frank opinion of slabbing collectibles someday if you really want me to hear me be "rude".) Practically every collector who gets into the hobby for "the money" is going to leave in disappointment, or worse, disgust. History shows that well, even back in the days when there were "stamp counters" in every department store: much more today, where material is more abundant and immediately available.

Now, I think we would agree on more than we disagree, on attracting young collectors, for instance. It's a difficult problem, and if your solution involves changing parenting styles or whatever, well, that's just not going to happen. I'm an advocate for simply giving kids stamps, hinges, albums, etc. -- and good stuff, too. Stamps are cheap. I think that's more likely to get results. There's a lot of competition nowadays for leisure time: I believe stamps can still captivate kids' imaginations (they did mine and many other collectors) but it's got to be quality.