Old News About Stamp Fraud

I just started collecting again in 2010, so missed stories like this.

If you don't want to read it all, I think the last sentence foretold where we stand today.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17171372/...ckiest-scam/

George spent a lot of time and effort trying to assist philately and prevent bad material from being offered on ebay. In fact he continues this even today and he has offered some great insight to me in running Stamp Smarter. Although these links are a bit old, you can see some of the work he did in the article that is mentioned here;
http://www.sheryll.net/Forgeries/Fr...le_Fraud.htm

As you can see, these fellows put a lot of work into uncovering some the fraud that was going on at that time. The SCADS web site went inactive years ago and has not been updated but I believe it is still viewable online.
I applaud folks like George, Bill Weiss, Richard Doporto, and Sheryll Oswald for promoting buyer education and calling philately's attention to some of the fraudulent activities that were evolving with the internet.
Don


Edit; The above link, although old, is a great resource even today. Some of this material is still floating around.

Great work as you say Don...If you want ebay stamp fraud stopped..SHUT DOWN ebay...CAUSE IT WILL never STOP.

Robert

I posted a current example of the exact issue detailed in the article, a stamp of lesser value being bought and then altered to be sold as a higher valued condition (Hinged to Never Hinged). See "Another Cartel package sale" in the ebay forum.

I've also spent many hours compiling back sales and data on these dealers, it's amazing how out in the open it all is, reusing the same photos and quickly relisting them.

If ebay wanted to, something they seem unwilling to do, it would be rather easy to compile evidence to shut down unethical dealers, they (the dealers) really don't seem to try hard to hide.

I'm pretty sure Don, with Stamp Smarter, has tried often to no avail.

Robert,
ebay is not evil nor is it the problem. The real problem is that some people will always be around that take advantage of others. The key is to educate and assist others in making the best buying decisions they can.

It is not by chance that much of the bad material being sold today is some of the higher dollar material. The 'bad guys' know that they can entice those who consider themselves fairly knowledgeable by starting an auction at 0.01 or offering 'bargains' that are 'too good to pass up'.

This may indeed be a battle that never ends. But there are lessons for us to learn with each new generation of hobbyists.
Don

I agree with Don, ebay really isn't the problem. Fraud has existed long before ebay, I'm pretty sure it showed up the first time someone tried to sell a three legged goat as "farm fresh". ebay is just more more outlet.

Don's right, that's just the way some people are, and it is a battle that never ends. I think some people just get tired of it, or numb to it, leading to acceptance to some extent. The best we can do is keep vigilant and not only point out the abuses but show others how to identify them when they are confronted with them.

Hi guys...Just for argument sake, I call the "BAD" guy a robber...And ebay being his gun...Now everyone says educate the public...And come on you know that will never happen 100%..The way I look at it, is take away the gun ( ebay) and the bad guy (robber) cant rob anyone any more...You are wanting to tell the people beware of the robber with a gun (and rightly so), but until you remove that GUN..People will continue to be robbed..How unfortunate.

Robert

Robert,
Respectfully disagree. The technology (gun) doesn't matter, humans were taking advantage of each other with clubs and spears long before the gun was ever invented. The internet (and by extension ebay) are simply the "messenger" here, they are the conduit in which some humans have found possible personal gain by taking advantage of others. And just like guns, the internet (and ebay) also contemporaneously represent many positive things too. There are some good dealers online and it is possible for an informed buyer to make good decisions. But being educated is the key.
Don

Hey Robert,

Don't want to seem like ganging up on anyone but taking one "weapon" or source away doesn't really stop anyone from doing bad. Take their gun and they'll rob you with a knife or simply strong arm you. Maybe the wrong analogy? If the intent is there, the way will be found. ebay may be at fault for not policing as well as should but it does provide a source for people to easily find something as well as sell off items.

If it wasn't for ebay, I'm not sure how I would get rid of some of my old stuff and find a ready source for what I want. I just sold all my old Hot Wheels I had as a kid, thought I'd get maybe $75 tops. They ended up selling for $690. If I went to a shop or dealer, I would have gotten pennies. In actuality, stamps are a small part of what is sold on ebay, closing it down would hurt so much more and only open the door for something else, there is always something else.

I just started back in the stamp hobby the past 6 months after some 40 years. I've had some bad buying experiences along the way (the worst were actually through auction houses where I thought they would be above ebay). I just had to go through that education process (just like everything else) and , I think, am wiser for it. Until I start on something new, then I fall all over myself again. I will admit, it's made collecting somewhat frustrating and discouraging. As I told a dealer, some people are in the hobby for the enjoyment, some are in it just for the commerce.

Steve

No more comments...
Is that better Nothingman...

Oh man, you're going to get me in trouble. I recently retired from the construction industry and had to promise my wife I wouldn't give out black eyes any more.

Perfect timing, she just started dinner and I can't find the rat poison...

While I agree, as usual, with most of what Don says, I do disagree about "evil" ebay. After ebay abandoned their anti-fraud efforts in the Stamps (and other popular collectibles) by disbanding the "Watch" groups, then later the EMR Program - both of which at least provided a measure of policing that paid off - to me that signaled that they made a concious corporate decision to "turn their heads" and allow the fraud to take place and/or continue.

The result is that we now have sellers, such as the "cartel" using numerous seller accounts to perpetute their fraud, untouched - because there is no longer any "review" person(s) for ebay, so using the "Report Item" webform is a waste of time since no provision exists to explain in detail WHY a report is being made and so the "Report" is never acted on! I have NEVER had a "Report Item" result in ebay removing the item I reported.

Then, to compound this, the ONLY way to successfully contact a live person at ebay to "Report" anything is through the "Contact Us" function, which is another dead end and a waste of time in my experience. Try it sometime. I encourage you. Use that function and talk to some dude in the Philippines who barely speaks English and see how much of your time is taken up to "try" to "report" a bad item. Go ahead. Then let us know how you made out.....

So bottom line, yes, ebay **IS** "evil" for allowing/encouraging fraudulent activity by not providing any meaningful programs or safeguards to try to combat it. But I will admit that "Evil" is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of people see nothing wrong with any of this, turn their heads the other way, and go about their own business oblivious to these terrible practices that allow this problem to fester and damage our hobby.

Over the years, I've been sold fraudulent material in every way imaginable - APS sales books, stamp shows, ebay, auctions, etc. You cannot eliminate fraud from stamp collecting, or any human endeavor. Experience and education are the keys to understanding what you are looking at, so you can avoid being 'taken'. In the last 5 years, I have purposely bought forgeries at shows and through APS sales books, without informing the sellers. If the stamps or covers are cheap enough, I buy them for my specialized collections. And, there is no need to embarrass, or hassle a generalist dealer of foreign stamps who can't be knowledgeable about everything he sells. I would advise serious collectors to buy Varro Tyler's, Paul Schmid's and others books on detecting forgeries, and to borrow other such books from the APRL as part of their education as stamp collectors.

I whole heartedly agree with you Bill, I think some of us can take precaution when buying (to some extent), my worry is THESE people have a hand (because of monetary gain) to inflate, distort true values of stamps...What scares me (MAYBE) is Stamp Catalogue publishers are using this information to justify catalogue pricing.

Robert