Old News About Stamp Fraud

Seems everything just falls back to bashing ebay. I'm not a avid supporter but the reality is it is here to stay. My comment about there being more to ebay than just stamps was to acknowledge it's overall impact across a broad spectrum that allows all different people access. Fraud elsewhere on ebay? Sure, that's because fraud is everywhere. Ever bought a used car? Voted in an election? Want to ban fraud? Ban human beings. Face reality and educate yourself and others. ebay's evil yet there it is with quick links right on the main page of the forum.

Rather tired of the intellectual dead end on these posts. Just ends up on someone's soap box or pet peeve, no progress. Instead of new, fresh thoughts, maybe a different perspective that would shed some new light, it always seems to fall back on stagnation.

Interesting while it lasted. I hear a bottle of 20 year old Tawny Port calling my name, ciao.

All these people crying about FRAUD on ebay ......shees I heard it all 15 years ago .......There is two problems here ,first the information is hard to find on the internet and a lot of it is ancient history . I think some of it is pre-Christofer Columbus .
We got a crowd here who works hard on fraud but you have to be a specialist to understand the difference between clay paper and blue paper .....do I really care if a double inverted Jenny is sold on ebay ? {for those of you who never seen a double invert ,were the frame and the airplane is both printed upside down ,I have a few for sale }. My point is that most fraud is done to beginners and at the low end of the buying public .
If you want to fight fraud ,make it searchable and fun to study and learn about it . Shees-- time for my coffee and the ducks are at the back door looking for breakfast{crack corn} .

Aargh, I well remember schuylerac, chckfrdstk, pcheltenham and those other low-lifes. I was always frustrated, though, by the dropping of heavy hints that these people's (or this person's) identities are known but cannot be revealed publicly. All the more so since the family name is/was apparently well-known to philately. I request anyone who knows the real identity of chckfrdstk or any of the others to email me with this info in confidence--I promise that no libel actions will result.

Dudley,
email sent
Don

To "fight fraud" would require that inexperienced collectors need to be better educated, and that means studying how stamps are faked, altered or misrepresented. But that brings us back to the old axiom "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink". If folks would learn how to detect these problems or at least be aware of them **BEFORE** they buy in ANY venue, the hobby would be far safer than it is now.

But educational information *IS* readily available simply by buying the right books, studying the right online information, buying from known reputable sellers, using expertizing as an insurance tool, etc.
How do we "force" anyone to educate themselves? Answer - we can't. So we do the next best thing, we try to help by creating a vehicle where both buyers and sellers can benefit from. But like forcing folks to educate themselves, we aso can't force anyone to join our small attempt at fighting fraud. We hope that *YOU* will join and consider actively posting problematic items you come across.

Everyone that starts out dreams that they have found the rarest stamp known. It is just the nature of the hobby. That is also when their education starts. I makes me mad that there are people waiting to prey upon them. As Bill said though we can't make anyone learn or buy smarter. We can put the information out there and hope they read and ask questions.

This person was actively still selling on ebay up to a few years ago, but I am unaware if he is now.George K. built a powerful case indeed, but all for nothing. Sad.

Some searching for this ebay seller led me to even older news about stamp fraud. Bid rigging by certain dealers who referred to themselves as "the ring".

Some of the names in other stories I read about "the ring" makes me wonder which auction houses might still be... less than forthright about any of their business practices?

http://ag.ca.gov/newsalerts/print_r....php?id=1113

Thank you, raymodj, for providing this link to the 2001 AG case. This shows how large and deep the auction side of the fraud was, that "stole" money from sellers and buyer/seller premiums from auction houses. THEN, in addition to this, the ebay and other sales venue fraud occurred as we know. WOW. My hat is off to SCADS, Weiss, Don and others who have and do actively pursue ferreting out and curbing rats like these conspirators and frauds.

Yes, many thanks to all the people within the hobby for all the work they have done to push back against dishonest sellers and to educate our community! It's unfortunate that our legal system hasn't been able to do much to help that effort. Unscrupulous people within the hobby have little or no fear of reprisal.

Does anyone know the result of the California Attorney General's case included in Raymondj's post? Were the auction houses fined?

NEESKENS ----The auction houses in this case were the victims .They got their own scams going not the ones talked about above .

I meant the auction houses who were participating in the illicit bidding scheme.

From other articles I've read, some auction houses were alleged to be complicit. Meaning some allegedly knew what was going on and chose to look the other way. The lawsuit went after the individual members of the ring, not the auction houses. Here's one settlement link.

http://www.ag.ny.gov/press-release/...amp-auctions

Edited a great deal for clarity.

It wasn't the auction houses as a business as it was firm owners and other stamp dealers agreeing to as a group to limit the groups bidding and depressing prices in a public auction .The group would not bid against others in the group .