The Stamps Of Turkey / Turkiye: On Steiner Pages.

Yes, I am finding that with the Turkish Cinderella, recently posted.
Shall take months to ID.

Still, they are beautiful stamps, you are fortunate to have them, I just checked the ONEPS bulletins for any write ups.

Some times, the Philatelic Gods, shine on one.

I have been chasing this Cinderella for a couple of years, but at $40 had just given up, too expensive.

I have just opened a Cinderella lot from Nth America ( $4) and there it was, looking up at me.

Another difficult one nailed.



See Floortraders un-overprinted example.......

https://goscf.com/t/42439

Nice page FT!

They are not that scarce or expensive Rod - you can find them around. I even have some blocks/multiples of at least one value. (I believe the 40 para - I will try to find & take pix...)

These are the overprinted versions, listed in Turkey in Asia in Scott. The high value - the 40 para - is scarce/expensive! Been chasing that one for years - don't see it alot - and it goes for lots of $ when it does appear...

Michael,
if you spot them, any time in the future, please email me.

Varieties (proofs) of the 40 paras, the overprint is signed by "Nouri"





OTTOMAN NAVY ASSOCIATION (TURKISH NAVAL LEAGUE) STAMPS

(A) ISSUE OF 1914

These stamps were originally issued by
the Ottoman Navy Association in 1914
as 1, 2, 5, 10, and 40 para labels
to be voluntarily purchased to
support the Ottoman Navy Association.

The center design depicts various
warships of the period: the 1 and
40 paras a destroyer, the 2 and 5
paras a torpedo boat, and the 10
paras an armoured cruiser.

The vessels are unidentified in the
literature.

(B) ESSAYS OF 1914

In recent years a number of imperforate
printer's proof, trial colour runs have
come into the market. One Istanbul
authority reports that a "complete set"
consists of 26 colours and that one
such a lot was auctioned several years
ago, in Europe.

Certainly, the available literature does
not mention these colour trials so the
exact number is currently one of those
unanswered questions surrounding this
issue.


(C) REVENUE OVERPRINTS OF 1915

In 1915, all but the 40 paras value
of the Ottoman Navy Association
issue were also used as revenue
stamps.

Six stamps were created by over-
printing "for immigrant aid" and a
new value in red.

Three of the six stamps are :
5 piastre on 1 para orange;
100 piastre on 2 paras blue; and
100 piastre on 5 paras green.



(D) REVENUE OVERPRINT OF 1916

In 1916, a black overprint, "paras 5 paras" /
"kerosene and match revenue stamp" was
applied to the 1 para orange Ottoman Navy
Association stamp.



(E) POSTAL OVERPRINTS OF 1921

(overprinted for postal use by the Anatolian
Government)

Because of the shortage of stamps available
to them, the Ankara Government appropriated
existing supplies of the Ottoman Navy
Association issue in Anatolia and
overprinted them in 1921 for postal use.



The issue contains numerous errors and
varieties because of the lack of printing
expertise and sheer carelessness.
(i.e. invert overprints, wrong years, etc.)

This is shown here by an inverted overprint
on the 5 para green.


It should be noted that overprinting low
values such as the 1, 2, and 5 para
denominatons was so inconsistent with
prevailing postal rates that these stamps
were most probably useless for actual
postage.

(In 1933, there were 80 paras to one US cent.)

Michael, Rod - fascinating - thank you. Could you clarify what's meant by " Turkey in Asia", please? By 1914, the Ottoman Empire was, in practical terms, almost exclusively reduced to its Asian provinces. Does the phrase thus refer to all of them, or chiefly to Anatolia? And would, for example, the surcharged navy stamps have been used in a restricted or larger area?

Geoff,
best described in Scott (for my understanding) I feel like I know what it means, but hard to describe.

More eloquent members may certainly add.

This designation, which includes all of Turkey in Asia Minor, came into existence during the uprising of 1919, led by Mustafa Kemal Pasha. Actually there was no separation of territory, the Sultan's sovereignty being almost immediately reduced to a small area surrounding Constantinople. The formation of the Turkish Republic and the expulsion of the Sultan followed in 1923. Subsequent issues of postage stamps are listed under Turkey (Republic).

Geoff,
to the new stamp collector to Turkey, it can be a bit daunting, I relied greatly in the begining to "The Stamp Atlas"
Stuart Rossiter and John Flower 1989
ISBN 1863090010

Easy to see the changing boundaries via the Legend.
(I always knew Anatolia as "Asia Minor" )

Boundaries pre Republic.

Rod - thank you. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear! I understand the later division of the Ootoman Empire. I was focusing on the pre-Kemal period when the Asian element of the Empire was intact, but under attack from the Arab Revolt and the British Army to the South and the British/Indian Army to the south-east. My query was rather whether issues such as the overprinted naval stamps were used wherever the Ottoman writ still ran, or in a more restricted area closer to Istanbul.

Right. (Whew!)
Beyond my knowledge Geoff....perhaps Michael?

My time lines are decidedly hazy.

I did read a commentary on Turkey in Asia some time ago. Dashed if I can recall where.
I guess your question is, how widespread was the Ankara Govt in 1921.

I have read nothing in depth regarding these stamps.

Hi Geoff,

I'm not clear what your question is:




The overprinted naval labels SG A66-A70 were issued by the Ankara government and by this time the territory it controlled was already less than the area of modern Turkey.

Large parts of the Eastern and Southern coasts were occupied by Greek, Italian and French forces.

Constantinople was occupied by Britain although the Sultan was nominally still in power.

There's a useful map of Europe in August 1920 here:

http://omniatlas.com/maps/europe/19200810/

Rod, Michael,Nigel - thank you, and apologies for spreading confusion. I think I was misled by items (C) and (D) in the list in Rod's post of earlier today, thus conflating them with use in what were then still the Asian provinces of the Ottoman Empire (Syria, Mesopotamia etc).

This thread constantly makes me feel like we live in a pinball machine?!

In no particular order:

Rod - the signature on that stamp is 'Nouri' - who was a dealer. From my experience, he 'signed' lots of stamps! (Although I've seen that mark innumerable times on the back of stamps, I can't recall ever seeing it on the front, even though that one is in the selvedge?!)

Geoff - I think you're asking about how widespread these overprinted stamps were used - and where? Perhaps the following 'production' quantities - or more accurately in this case - the number of naval labels overprinted with the 'new' Ankara government - will speak to your question: (numbers from Isfila)

1p - 30,000
2p - 10,000
5p - 10,000
10p - 5,000
40p - 1,100

In other words, the total numbers of these stamps available for use - considering the size of the territory - was extremely small!

(Rod - are those proofs - and 'signed' 40para stamp - yours??! If so, they're awesome! I had no idea you had that stamp! That is a good one to show!)

Others knowledge on that period is much beyond mine. (Nigel!) My amateur/casual comment would be that the 'new' government was being formed. They struggled. (With everything - including stamps!) They began by overprinting old Ottoman revenues - and then moved on to these Naval labels & then Ottoman stamps. Eventually they got around to printing some of their own - in 1922 - including that postage due set we were discussing a few pages ago.

More later...

I'm just sitting back and watching

Ok - hate when works gets in the way of good stamp conversations!

Geoff - 'Turkey in Asia' - don't take it 'literally' - it is the Scott classification - which is all I meant by using it - so you could find easily in Scott catalog. It really means the temporary/new government that was established in 1920, as the 'pre-cursor' to the Republic of Turkey. Isfila calls it the 'Turkish Grand National Assembly Government' and I know it as the 'Ankara Government' as a casual term/way of referring to it.

I think of this government as akin to the 'Continental Congress' - which was the 'pre-cursor' government of the US. (Which may not help those of you living in the 'defeated' / 'exiled' regime of what is modern England?!)

(Sorry - couldn't resist!)

Please remember - these are just casual observations/the way I think of this. Historically, this was an exceptionally complex time, and this is a very casual/careless/broad overview. My knowledge of this is extremely thin!

And last one for now - Rod - are you trying to tell us that you've had that overprinted Florence Nightingale SS all this time???!? Sitting in your house, unknown to you??? You've got to be kidding. That's outrageous! Not as high on my list as it (was!) yours - but I've certainly wanted one for a long time. (!) I've had the un-overprinted version for years, but haven't gotten to the O/P one yet. And in a $4 box! The philatelic gods have indeed been shining on you recently!