Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Why I Despise Grading

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 50 / Views: 5,360Next Topic
Page: of 4
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   4:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add revcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This in a nutshell is why I despise grading. Lot 1341 of Siegel sale 1140 is a graded 100 single of R71a, and at first glance it looks like a great stamp. Unless one is aware that until recently it was the bottom center stamp in the the largest recorded multiple and only known block of six, ex Joyce, Cunliffe, and Curtis (lot 356). It brought $750+15% ($862.50). The single only cats $300, and since revenue collectors generally don't care about grading, it seems likely that $900 less the sellers commission is the absolute best that can be hoped for here. So a unique multiple was destroyed so that someone might break even, or possibly make a tiny profit if they are very lucky.

Sale 1140
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...9-11%2C+2016

Curtis sale
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...r+16%2C+2014
Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   4:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is too bad that this is happening whereby several stamps in a multiple are destroyed in order to make one stamp very well-centered. It is up to specialists who specialize in the affected stamps to protest this kind of desecration. To destroy unique philatelic multiples is truly outrageous. Even though U.S. revenue stamps are not my specialty, I am tempted to email the auction house that sold it.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/16/2016 4:51 pm
Rest in Peace
United States
4052 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   4:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ouch!

We might also take a moment to blame the brave, new world of digital information, where it is far easier to collect reliable historic price data for singles than to construct a reliable estimate for pairs, strips, blocks, margin blocks, center line blocks, and all of those with & without the available plate numbers.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   5:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We could always start a boycott of the offenders. By the way, who was the offender?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know. I thought I recognized it and double checked.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
8582 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   6:44 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The resultant "100" also looks horrible - just a manufactured monstrosity, rather than the result of original, serendipitous cutting.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
856 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   6:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rustyc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ugh. Destroying a unique multiple for the sake of obtaining an artificially high grade is despicable.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
364 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add knuppster59 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Awful...sadly there is a market for this stuff. Not sure why, but apparently some collectors like having graded stamps.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   10:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not just that it's graded. It also shows sections of surrounding stamps. Apparently a community of buyers thinks that is attractive. I do not. It looks like a contrived collectible to me.

The only response I can see is not to buy from Siegel. Regency Superior also regularly offers these cutouts, and I stopped buying from them as a result. It's probably impossible to know who did the scalpel work, so the only way to address it is not to patronize the seller.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
79 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   10:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NeoRev to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Such a shame there's a market for these butcher jobs. You'd think they would at least just trim it to the ends of the margins and not completely destroy all the other stamps.
Of course the best option is to leave it alone, but when there is a chance to make a buck common sense goes out the window.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by NeoRev - 10/16/2016 10:47 pm
Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts
Posted 10/16/2016   10:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is mostly happening to imperforate stamps. However, I thought that the norm for imperforate stamps is that they should be collected in at least pairs or more as multiples rather than singles even with bits of other stamps all around. They are now ruining imperforate multiples by doing this since originally at least pairs were philatelically favored. Now not even pairs are being left from multiples.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/16/2016 11:05 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
12330 Posts
Posted 10/17/2016   03:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Legally it comes down to a personal property right; if a person owns something they have a right to do with it what they want. We might despise the practice, we might boycott those who do it, but at the end of the day a person can light cigars with their stamps if they want to.

Ethically we only have boycotting. But boycotting this practice means convincing buyers that they really should not buy a stamp due to an ethical consideration. Can an ethical consideration suspend the greed and selfishness of buyers?

Altering stamps to increase value has been happening for decades. In the same way you cannot undo the destruction of a rare multiple you cannot un-reperf a rare stamp or remove a faked cancel or overprint. Yet after decades of this kind of outright fraudulent behavior we still have plenty of buyers who are willing to support those who do this.

To exert maximum pressure an ethical boycott would mean not buying anything from a seller. But time after time I have seen the position 'yes I know this seller is dealing in bad material but I am good enough to pick and choose the good deals for myself'.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 10/17/2016   04:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have reviewed the APS Code of Ethics. We might explore point number 7 under the APS code of Ethics, namely, I agree not knowingly to sell, trade, produce, or advertise repaired, altered, or otherwise modified philatelic items unless that condition is clearly stated. This places the onus of "clearly stating" that the material has been altered. Might this also apply to the certifying agency? In other words adding the "altered" designation to the grading certificate should be required of the agency that is grading the material. In the museum world, when one alters or cleans material for the goal of preservation on conservation, one must document one was done to the object. Should we not push to use that standard for philatelic property?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Ron Lesher
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
12330 Posts
Posted 10/17/2016   04:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dipping a stamp in watermark fluid alters a stamp (by cleaning it). Can cleaning a stamp improve its grading?
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 10/17/2016   07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Watermark fluid does not "clean" a stamp. It only shows variations in the paper which might be good (watermarks) or bad (thins and other faults).
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts
Posted 10/17/2016   07:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Will the stamp organizations really do anything about this when the sellers such as auctioneers could be their big advertisers? This may show a conflict of interest if they ignore this philatelic issue.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 10/17/2016 07:43 am
Page: of 4 Previous TopicReplies: 50 / Views: 5,360Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05