Perforation Varieties On The Yugoslavia King Peter Set Of 1939?

European collectors will know the ones I mean: a lot of them were overprinted during the war when Italian and German forces occupied parts of Yugoslavia - I'm thinking of Slovenia, the Fiume and Kupa Zone, Serbia, Montenegro and others.

The question is this: did the perforations on these stamps change? Are there varieties? The Gibbons catalogue clearly states a 12.5 perforation and mentions no others. Such a perforation equates to 14 x 18 clear holes on the stamp.

However, on a majority of overprints offered by a well-known auction and sales site, I count the perforation as 15 x 19, which equates at least to a P13.25 or P13.5. Are these bogus issues, reprints, or a genuine variety of the basic King Peter stamp?

If there are any Yugoslavia experts out there, I'd be glad of your opinion.

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

an avid Yugoslavia collector, but by no means an expert. I have never seen any indications of anything other than the 12.5 perf. listed anywhere. bear in mind that I focus on the post-war communist era more than the Kingdom era, so I don't have a lot of information logged on these.
your inquiry does have my curiosity up. would you mind sharing the auction that you are referencing in your post?

Hi Kuhli - thanks for your response.

Look at the Delcampe philately site under Europe/Fiume and Kupa (or Italian Occupation of Slovenia), and you will see several examples of overprinted stamps offered with the wrong perforations, including an entire set of FKZ offered at 200 euros, none of whose stamps appear to be genuine.

I can only assume the P13.5 stamps are post-war reprints deliberately produced to distinguish them from the genuine stamps. These have then been overprinted by unscrupulous dealers and have found their way into dealers' stocks. But I have no evidence of this, nor have I heard tell of any such productions.



Example of a 15 x 19-hole King Peter overprint.

Please correct me if I am wrong,
but you seem to be counting the Holes? across the entire stamp.
Perhaps a better option is to measure the width/height of the stamp design, and measure the "Teeth" within those measurements.

If your examples are line perforated your measurements are going to be all over the place.

Lets back up for a minute ,the King Peter II original set was perforated 12 1/2 and during the Italian Occupation the set was overprinted and these come in perf. 12 1/2 and 13x12 1/2 . So it is possible a few of the 13's escaped the overprint .
Second the FIUME overprint was never used for postage and are questionable by Scott's ,they are unlisted but mentioned .

rod222, yes, I am counting the holes as what I thought was a good way of determining perforations on an onscreen 'virtual' stamp. The results on every stamp, actual and onscreen, have been either 15x19, or 14x18, which is hardly 'all over the place'. However, I have correlated these on actual King Peter II (KP2) stamps in the usual perforation gauge way, which is where I arrive at two clearly separate perforations. You suggest counting the teeth across the design, in which the stamp I illustrate above has 13. A check on an original KP2 shows 12.5. Thank you for reminding me that this is a better way, perhaps the only way, to check the perforations of an onscreen image.

floortrader, you explain this '13' by suggesting that the KP2 set existed in a separate perforation which was then used (alongside the original stamps) upon Italian occupation, a fact which Gibbons overlooks entirely. I'd be glad of evidence for this (i.e. I suppose a catalogue attribution, given that contemporary evidence of stamp issuing is notoriously hard to come by).

As for the overprinted issues, Gibbons gave used prices for all Fiume and Kupa Zone issues in its Europe 3rd edition. If evidence that this is incorrect has emerged over the past couple of decades I'd be glad of a reference.

Absolutely the only way, if your stamp example is line perforated, then you cannot rely on consistency.

The Stamp example you show (you call 15 x 19 hole)

I can tell you is Perf 14 x 13.6

Your Scott King Michael quotes Perf 12½

Ergo, you are correct, as far as I can see, to question these issues.

When I was researching my own Kupa Revenues,
I was aware the UNIFICATO catalogue was the best info.
Perhaps they address the differing perfs?

Just a thought.

To be fair, for Yugoslavia material, and all kind of perforation variety, You will need or local specialized catalog, or, minimum Michel catalog for West Balkans countries.

I can mention post-WWII period - a lot of perforation varieties!
Keep an eye about!

(shown: Michel number 486-491 I + II type)

Milco,
You keep 'bumping' old threads (means posting to threads which have been inactive for many years); I assume that you have noticed the 'Old Thread' notification when you post to an old thread.

This is allowed but when you do this, please add to your posts that you are bumping an old thread. It is important to tell others this because they will not notice the thread is years/decades old and may start wasting time trying to reply to the old poster who may not have been active for years.
Don

Well, in the death mask thread, he is trying to communicate with the spirits.

I hope he isn't doing this just to get to 50 posts.
Don

51studebaker - to be fair, I even didn't noticed this "limit" for, not exactly understand reason.
Some time back, if I'm correct, it was 25 limit, so, I just lost it from memory, and participate in this community just as time allow.
I try few time in past, to post something and system say that I'm just 2nd class member and not allowed, so result was to erase it from my brain.

Now, regarding bumping old treads - You see from my profile, that English is not my native language, and when this notice come to the post, I, again, didn't react, for reason that, if system allow to post something, than, it is O.K. - probably I'm wrong?

Now, on comment, if I try to communicate with ghost?
Bro, everyone of us will be one day ghost - isn't?
(shown another one sample with different perforation)
It is Michel catalog number 542-544, which have three different perforation!

Try again!

What does it say below the name of the person who posted what you replied to here: https://goscf.com/t/16236&whichpage=1#797762?

That's what I thought as well. At least if they are quality posts, they should still count towards the first 50 posts. My assumption is there aren't a lot of active current threads on this US-centric board to reply with information from his expertise.

Even though they are reactions to very old threads, the information can still be relevant and useful to restart the conversation with current readers of the topic. I am still a relative newbie here, so I didn't read the original threads from years ago, and I am learning something new by reading them now. Even if the original poster isn't around to read the response, it is still a good addition and useful to have the additional information for future users of Search.

Yes, I agree that Milco (and everyone else) should begin their reactions to older threads with a note like "This is a response to a thread from 6 years ago".

For clarification (and 'to be fair')…
I understood his first language was not English.

The poster describes himself as a "Part-time dealer in philately, service for Yugoslavia and all ex-Yu countries, Czechoslovakia" on social media.

Even for people where the first language is not English, I would assume that they understand the big red warning stop sign that is shown on the only reply screen for very old threads (including most of the ones he replied to).


I had replied myself five time that his posts had bumped very old were threads.

I try hard to not make assumptions on anyone's intentions. Hence this was why I posted



After I posted the above, he posted at least three more times without noting the old thread.

His opinions and expertise are indeed welcome. IF he was trying to run up his post count to get where he could link marketing, then I had to make a judgement call to not only lookout for the community but also not have other think that this is one way to work-around the post count policy.
Don