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Pan-Am Cover To Borneo????

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Rest in Peace
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   6:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stampman2002 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I would love to hear what some of our cover experts say about this one!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38192235035...RK:MEBIDX:IT
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Rest in Peace
United States
82 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   6:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wbrob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it can be confirmed that the three stamps were properly tied to the cover, and that it was indeed delivered in Borneo, it would be quite
an item.
Until then, is is simply interesting.
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Rest in Peace
United States
82 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   6:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wbrob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PS - Stampman: I an not an expert but have handled and collected covers for 50+ years. I am quite interested in all the comments that this generates.
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Valued Member
Australia
415 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   7:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pagoda to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Something is amiss.

It should have transit marks after it left London, presumably Singapore & arrival of Kuching in Sarawak.

In my opinion it originally had an address label to GB which was removed and a more desirable exotic destination hand written onto the envelope.

Pagoda
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Rest in Peace
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think it may be complete faked. The alarms started ringing looking at the New York registry label. Can someone explain how a cover, mailed from Connecticut, can have the return address rubber stamped ON TOP of the New York Registry label?
Looking closely at the cover, it's amazing that there are no cancellations tying anything on the cover. Not a single stamp was struck with a cancellation from Connecticut to Borneo. As pagoda correctly pointed out, there should also have been transit markings from England to Borneo. What about registry cancels on the flap, sealing it, or are those covered up by all the labels?

If I'm wrong, someone please explain what I'm getting wrong with this cover. I'd love to have a Pan-Am cover sent to Borneo in my collection, but I would want it to be legitimate!
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Edited by Stampman2002 - 01/16/2017 8:52 pm
Valued Member
Australia
415 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   9:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pagoda to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just to be precise, it is addressed to Kuching, Sarawak which is on Borneo Island. Sarawak is a highly collectable area and inwards covers are scarce,

Pagoda
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Valued Member
United States
122 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   9:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add paul78703 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Are the stamps tied to the cover? I can't see that they are.
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Pillar Of The Community
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United States
936 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   10:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mml1942 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This cover was sold last year in Matthew Bennett Sale #352 Lot 202. This sale sold the registered mail collection of Eliot Landau. My records indicate it sold for $350/

The registration label is original to the cover; the number fits the period of use in New York. These labels were printed on a transparent paper, so the return address which appears to be on top of the label may well be underneath. One would have to examine the actual cover to determine.

The absence of markings beyond London is certainly troubling, but not every registered cover receives all the required markings.

I also cannot tell from the scan whether the stamps are tied. Neither the ebay scan or the orgional image from Matthew Bennett is clear enough to make a determination.
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United States
6661 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   10:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The fact that the seller couldn't add some better scans makes me not even consider something like this. It costs nothing to add good scans.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10598 Posts
Posted 01/16/2017   10:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Bennett description says they are tied by smudge cancels; however I am not really comfortable with this cover.
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Valued Member
Australia
415 Posts
Posted 01/17/2017   01:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pagoda to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
re

" The absence of markings beyond London is certainly troubling, but not every registered cover receives all the required markings ".

Every Registered cover I have seen from GB to any of the colonies should have transit and receiving marks. I have seen 100's if not 1000's and every one has.

Pagoda

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1515 Posts
Posted 01/17/2017   04:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jenny2U to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Too many questionable elements. I wouldn't bid on it.
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Valued Member
United States
166 Posts
Posted 01/17/2017   06:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kelump to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like something was removed from the envelope underneath the upper left corner of the 8 cent stamp.
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United States
12330 Posts
Posted 01/17/2017   06:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Extraordinary items demand extraordinary provenance and/or evidence.
Don
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Rest in Peace
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 01/17/2017   8:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The registration label is original to the cover; the number fits the period of use in New York. These labels were printed on a transparent paper, so the return address which appears to be on top of the label may well be underneath.


Look closely at the label. If, as you say, the label is so thin that what is underneath it comes through, why on the right side of the label does it hide the edges of the dome? Yet it clearly shows the lightly applied address. This was why I questions it.
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Pillar Of The Community
1211 Posts
Posted 01/18/2017   11:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that it appears to be a faked cover. Though, if one could establish that it is authentic, then I would have some issues with it being valued much more than $10 for a number of reasons - it would be a complete philatelic creation in that it was not posted during the Expo (it ended on November 2), it was posted from Litchfield, Connecticut while the Expo was in Buffalo, New York, there is no reason to use this over the top decorated envelope other than to create a philatelic item, the stamps as used stamps have minimal value, and the postal markings are incomplete and the stamps being "tied" to the cover with some "smudges" are uninspiring. Overall it is dodgy in my opinion. What I would want, were I collector of such things, would be a letter mailed from the Exposition during the Exposition and having proper and clear markings. Alternatively, I would want a clean and well marked ordinary cover, perhaps with a preprinted corner card return address of some company or individual, franked with Expo stamps but sent as authentic ordinary business or personal mail - non philatelic in other words.
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