Don't Think I'll Be Buying Anything "Expertised" By This Co.

Perhaps he should rethink this idea.

I don't know Alan Miller & have never bought anything from him. He probably is an honest person & dealer. Recently I noticed quite a few stamps being offered that were certified by him. What I looked at, I was not impressed with.

I highly doubt the certs are faked. Some stamps (maybe all) have "AM" in pencil on back (& maybe Scott#). I'm sure CK is probably selling a collection they bought from someone, or are selling for someone. My guess would be the collector bought quite a bit of material already certified by AM.

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means, but some of what he certified is very questionable & shouldn't take an "expert" to see the discrepancy. Some items I believe should be considered fake, until proven genuine. I noticed (on what I saw) zero faults were called, even very obvious flaws. That may be how he certifies stamps, without listing faults. That's his choice, same as my choice to never buy anything expertised by him(& have him expertise my stamps).

This is the first I've seen material "expertised" by AM & just wanted to let others know what I noticed. Sorry if I stepped on any toes, not my intention.

What revcollector said = spot on!

ANY Stamp Dealer. ANY Stamp Collector. ANY Stamp Forger. ANYONE willing to go to the expense to have forms printed, make "EXPERTIZATION CERTIFICATES" with their name printed on them and claim "STAMP EXPERT" can scam an unknowing collector. And there is nothing that can be done the person until someone can build a case for mail fraud against the individual. Even then the scammer could say it was their opinion against the claimant and only be forced to "refund" a purchase price. Legal authorities are not going to press charges against someone unless combined fraud amounts (I believe it is and I stand to be corrected) are at State levels: $5,000, and FBI-Federal levels: $10,000+. I know for a fact that even small FBI offices don't really want to touch a fraud case for $10,000 because of case loads; they are that busy. So it is "CAVAET EMPTOR" when accepting an "EXPERTIZATION CERTIFICATE".

I have an issue with these "certs" from what I have seen thus far.

I am not familiar with Alan Miller, I think that the Miller that was mentioned at the recent ASDA show was Miller's Stamps out of CT, and they are a dealer that I am familiar with.

I have absolutely no issue with someone who is also a dealer issuing certs per se, I know that Bill Crowe has been in the business longer than I have probably been alive and that my parents both did a lot of business with him and I absolutely trust his opinions on a cert.

I would likewise trust certs if they were issued by Jim Lee, Richard Champagne or Stanley Piller without question and they all do work for the PF, PSE, APS and PSAG.

Meanwhile, I don't see Alan Miller as a listed expert for any of those services, as such I would tend to take these certs with a grain of salt.

They used to do work for PSE. PSE has done everything "in house" for about a dozen years now; the list of names on the site are only true for certs issued before that time.

Rev,

I have reason to believe that is not entirely true. I would like to hear it from the horses mouth, so to speak.

I know that when I asked the major revenue dealers, they said it had been years since they did any work for them. However I have not asked very recently, although several of their revenue certs speak for themselves (clearly they are not).

I can ask, but I don't collect revenue stamps. I seem to recall being told that PSE was still sending stuff out.

If any service gets something rather common and simple, such as a Scott #68 sent in for a graded cert then that doesn't have to go out to every expert on the earth. If something truly rare comes in or tricky then the experts are called.

Alan Miller is a dealer primarily in used US classic stamps who has been in business since the 1960s.

Regarding self-certification of stamps--that is, someone preparing an expert certificate for stamps that they then sell--are we applying a double standard to Miller and PSE? Doesn't PSE buy multiples on the open market, divide them to produce the best single, issue a graded certificate, then sell the certified single wholesale to Gintner, Century or others? Does the fact that these sales occur at wholesale make them different from Miller, or is it their level of perceived expertise? Does anyone really have experiential educational credentials for Miller and people at PSE that can be objectively compared? Do Gintner, Century or others supply the multiples to PSE in the first place, to be transformed into graded singles by PSE and then resold at far higher prices? I base this view of the potential for a circle of action between these firms on suspicion and not documented transactions, and it's not necessarily unethical or wrong, just interesting and knowledge worth having. The production for the market of certified graded items is not fully transparent.

revcollector, I know PSE sends the uncommon or tricky ones out to area experts for my collecting area, which is classic U.S. postage stamps. I don't know what they do for revenues.
cjpalermo1964, I am not familiar with any activity by PSE such as you describe. I know Century would not and does not engage in that type activity. Century or others might cut down a multiple they already own to get a single (only works for imperforates) and send it to PSE to get it graded but to my knowledge they would not be buying it from PSE. I have never known Century to do this, however. I have no knowledge about Gintner.

cjpalermo: I'm confused.

I am familiar with philatelic dealers Ed Resier (dba Century Stamps), Irving Miller (dba Miller Stamp Co.) and Henry Gitner (dba Henry Gitner Philatelists), but not the referenced "Gintner".

Please elaborate on exactly who this Gintner is and end my confusion.

cjpalermo: I am intrigued by your statement "that PSE buys multiples on the open market, divides them to produce the best single, issues a graded certificate and then sells the certified single wholesale". I would like to hear the source of your information/allegation. I worked for PSE full time from 2004 to 2008 and have acted as a consultant to them from 2010 to date. I have never seen such a thing happen. You are demeaning Century, Miller Stamp Co. and Gitner. The people who run those companies are perfectly capable of finding a stamp worth grading. As The Philatelic Foundation also grades stamps, do you feel that they do the same thing that you accuse PSE of doing. You feel that "the production for the market of certified graded items is not fully transparent". How would you make it transparent? The expertizing services that I am involved with (APEX, The Philatelic Foundation, and PSE) all maintain the highest standards and bend over backwards to be accurate.

@wtcrowe - I phrased this as a question intentionally. The premise is merely a possibility worth asking about, after reading dozens of threads here that have shown multiples sold in one forum, then singles appearing a few years later with a PSE graded certificate. If you say that PSE does not seek out and buy material, but works solely on submissions from dealers or individuals, then I believe you, as a reputable authority, and the record is straight. I am a satisfied customer of several of the dealers mentioned and nothing I wrote demeans any of them. It just asks for fair information about their sales practices. This sort of thing is never personal, it's just business.

Your comment is an example the sort of transparency we need. An additional improvement would be for PSE to specify, in each certificate, who submitted the material to them. Bill Weiss did this in his certs. PF does it. PSE does not.

The position of the thread, then, appears to be that only Alan Miller does self-certification. That's the point I'm trying to clarify.

Gintner -> Gitner.

Actually, at the submitter's request Bill Weiss would use "private submitter" and not use a name. APEX does not use the submitter's name either. Since its inception PSE has not used the submitter's name. On my own certificates, I offer the option, but few people request it. I do feel that stamps should stand on their own merits. Even the worst stamp person can have a good stamp which could be made suspect by the use of the submitter's name. I know dealers that prefer not to have their name on a certificate when they place a stamp up for auction as other dealers would shy away from the stamp thinking it has already been seen by one their potential customers. You assume that the person selling the stamp was the submitter and that is frequently not the case. There is no easy answer to your request.

I do know for a fact that Alan Miller does certificates for people other than himself. You can go to his website to see his charges. At NY2016 an E-bay dealer showed me certificates that he had from Alan. I asked him why he used Alan and the answer was speed, price and his clients did not care who wrote the certificate, just that it had a certificate.