Don't Think I'll Be Buying Anything "Expertised" By This Co.

"I asked him why he used Alan and the answer was speed, price and his clients did not care who wrote the certificate, just that it had a certificate."

Alas, too true. A certificate by any other name........ Sigh!

WAIT - I'm passing up a simple road to financial security. I'll open up a certifying business. I'm legally blind and have the IQ of a parsnip, but I have a Scott catalogue (circa 1987). I've been putting stamps on envelopes (and soaking them off) for decades. What more do I need?

uboatnut -- don't forget you'll need a watermark dish, a perf gauge, and a scanner. Then you'll be in business!

And an embossed seal crimper. Don't forget that. It's what makes a cert a cert.

I do not wish to offend any dealer or certifying service, but I strongly agree with cjpalermo on his post. I share his sentiments.

PSE gives me the "impression" that they are not just about the certification and grading, but also involved in the selling of the stamps. This impression is given to me through Collectors Corner where they only sell PSE graded or certified material. A conflict of interest. Advertisers have banners everywhere on the PSE website as well. I hate this.

These actions give the impression that, unlike the Philatelic Foundation, PSE is grading and selling, and working closely with certain dealers, which to me is just downright crazy. Everything in CJ's post is exactly how I have felt and I'm glad someone had the audacity to say it. Whether this association with certain dealers is on par with ethical standards that most of us are expecting, I do not know.

Now I have no proof of this, but PSE's actions in the way they present themselves in the marketplace surely suggests this. Whether they are cutting up the sheets to make 100J stamps or the dealer/collector is cutting them, who knows? But it sure seems they encourage the practice based on grading standards they pioneered.

The PF doesn't give me the impression that they are involved in these same types of "deals" nor involved in selling stamps. Ahhh the advantage of the non-profits.

"Avoid even the appearance of impropriety."

Folks, PSE doesn't sell stamps on Collectors Corner; dealers sell stamps on Collectors Corner. PSE provides the marketplace, not the stamps. They require that all stamps sold by dealers on their marketplace be PSE- certified stamps. I see nothing wrong with this; to me there is no impropriety or appearance of it. Do you also damn APS and Linn's for providing marketplaces (with their own restrictive requirements, BTW) for dealers and collectors?

It would help if PSE were up-front about the fact that they own or operate Collectors' Corner. I did not know that.

EDIT: It's not a deal-breaker. I'd just never heard of a cert company having a business relationship with a sales website (APS not withstanding).

Thanks revenue collector and ddaann-- I forgot about the embossed impression seal and the scanner, etc.!

uboatnut, PSE provides a marketplace for PSE-certified stamps via a business agreement with the owners of Collectors Corner. PSE certainly does not own Collectors Corner. PSE does not "operate" Collectors Corner in the usual sense of the term "operate" as it relates to a website, i.e. PSE does not provide or maintain the Collectors Corner software. Whether PSE "operates" the Stamps section of Collectors Corner would depend on your definition of the word "operate", I guess. My view would be that through their business agreement with the owners of Collectors Corner, PSE "manages" the Stamps section of Collectors Corner. I also think your concern about transparency is not needed; every section's homepage (including the Stamps homepage) and the main homepage of Collectors Corner has a tab at top right titled "About Us" which explains the arrangement from the Collectors Corner perspective and names the companies (some of which they may own) that they have partnered with to "manage" each of the sections (e.g. PCGS for coins, PSE for stamps, etc.). And the business arrangement between PSE and the owners of Collectors Corner to manage the Stamps section is evidently arms-length in that I don't think that the PSE website gradingmatters.com has any mention of or direct link to the Collectors Corner website. I also don't understand what difference it would make if PSE did have ownership of Collectors Corner and used the Stamps section in the manner they are using it under the current arrangement; where would the harm be in that?

Rhett

I'm not sure any ethical "standard" is being broken. But the "impression" I get from PSE on websites about their business model is they could easily be buying and selling stamps they "self certify". I hope not.
On the contrary I do not get this "feeling" from PF.

I'm just comparing the "impression" I get but I don't know if PSE employees are personally buying ungraded stamps or perhaps "on the cusp" previously graded stamps, grading them, and then selling them on Collectors Corner or any auction for that matter. That would be unethical by my standards. I hope not. Just something I and perhaps others worry about.

The Philatelic Foundation is, officially a non-profit organization, and I don't think that the PSE is.

If I am correct, then that mostly explains things.

txstamp, I don't think the PF being a non-profit and PSE not being one explains anything at all about ethical standards being broken. After all, the only major expertizing scandal in our hobby's history happened 3 decades ago at the PF; the PF was a non-profit then as it has always been. The PF today is the gold standard in the U.S. in certification in my opinion and that of many others; some of that is due to the reforms they instituted as a result of that horrible breach of ethics. (For those who don't know, a PF employee was paid by some dealers to change several hundred bad certs to clean ones before they were issued.)

rgstamps, "impressions" are not facts. I can dream up impressions about any person or institution. For example, does the close relationship between the PF and the CCNY (Collectors Club New York) mean that CCNY exerts undue influence on the PF? After all, the PF was born out of the CCNY; for years they have maintained offices at a separate location in NYC; now they are suddenly moving back in with CCNY. Does this mean that Wade Saadi of CCNY is now pulling the strings at the PF? Of course it doesn't; they are moving back in to the CCNY for cost savings reasons. Another example: are you not the least bit concerned about the APS/APEX/Stamp Store nexus? Is that not an environment ripe for ethical misconduct? After all, an agreed upon Stamp Store transaction between a buyer and a seller can be affirmed or negated by a certification decision made solely by APEX. Could APS be influencing their subsidiary APEX to always give clean certs to facilitate more Stamp Store sales? Again, an "impression" that has no facts to back it up; the certification option in Stamp Store is a good protection for a buyer. We should all avoid using "impressions" to make negative references to people and institutions. The PSE is not faultless; I have disagreed in the past with some of their practices and their customer service to me in the past has been really bad at times. I will say that I think things are improving under the new ownership; at least now they are willing to talk to me about my concerns and the conversations have been pleasant. Also, for the record, I hold the PF and APS in the highest regard and I am a customer of the PF and a member of APS. I only used the hypothetical examples above to make a point about the danger of using "impressions" instead of facts.

rgstamp, if PSE employees are making submittals of stamps that they personally own to PSE (and I don't know whether they are or not) and abiding by all the submission requirements and paying the proper fees, then I don't consider that unethical since the submission processes at APEX, PSE, PSAG, and the PF are "blind" in that the persons doing the expertizing do not know who submitted the items. I would nevertheless advise such PSE employees to use APEX, PSAG or the PF instead for their personal expertizing needs to avoid any bad optics.

Rhett... I hope you are right, but I'm just expressing my opinion.
When there is so much price difference between a 90, 95 and 98 grade, the chance of "bad stuff" happening goes up dramatically. I'm aware of the scandal PF has been caught involved in so they are not immune from this either. Just keeping the radar up!