1c 1851 Plate 2 Stamps

njs - congratulations !
That's quite an accomplishment.

That's a nice appearing 99R2.

Do you have any plans to maybe scan each position for a digital record ?
I know that's a lot of work.

Wow! That is unbelievably impressive! As I recall you were looking for 13L2 (I think)--was that the final position?

I traded him the 13R2 I had. I think he said he had one more to find after that one.

Great job completing it though.

In reference to the thread that started about here:

https://goscf.com/t/56958&whichpage=6#547184

The right sheet margin stamp there is 30L2.
It is ty II, #7 from Plate 2, thus I wanted to continue this here.

For reference, here is a 30-40L2 vertical pair.

The right margin markings at about 3:00 match the Neinken drawing very well on your stamp. The dot/mark in the O of ONE CENT got mostly eaten by the image optimizer when I uploaded the vertical pair, but its there, as it is on yours.

http://www.stampsmarter.com/plate/h...s2/27021.jpg

You can see that the Neinken drawing shows ornament shortness on the left side. I know you were concerned about the design on your stamp being damaged, but the bottom half of the left side at least appears intact to me, for the design on your stamp. It is a good match for the Neinken drawing in terms of left-side ornament completeness.

I can confirm that the left side matches 30L2. If I have time tomorrow, I will post a scan.

njs - Thank you! I was hoping you'd jump in here.

I am bringing the images over here for the 30R2 (Too bad it did not have some of the imprint).
I think the damage at the left is almost to the bottom of the stamp and then feathers out a bit further back. I am trying to decide the on best way to cut this stamp to remove the damage and loose as little design as possible. I sure thought I was right at 100L1E, lol. But I accept the experts opinions and appreciate their advice. I do not want to make any mistakes in the database. If any mistakes are found, please let me know.

I am sorry but I think cutting off part of the stamp is utter lunacy.

The top of the stamp has already been cut off. That makes the design at the left look incomplete when it may not be. It also makes the centering deceptive. I see it as damage that can be repaired by removing the bad edge.

Then how about just cropping your scans of it for your own use?




The stamp is 30L2 - left pane. The right margin of this stamp is the gutter area between the left and right panes of 100 subjects each. Plate 2 did not have a centerline between the panes, so you won't see one here. Just blank space.

As promised below is a scan of 30L2 showing the left side.

njs - Thanks for posting that.

The left side ornaments of njs's stamp and jaxom's are a match, with regard to relative ornament completeness, or lack thereof. For plate 2 and 3, in particular, these are a key plating aid.

This segues well into a point I wanted to make regarding some criteria of how one might sort and plate 1c stamps from the Transfer Roll #1 plates [1E, 1L, 2, 3].

If you have a stamp that is a T, A or B relief from one of these plates - they all used the same transfer roll, then the first thing you are going to want to do is quickly narrow it down to which plate is most likely.

A) Plate 1L - if its recut its Plate 1L. The only exception is 4R1L, but its not too hard to recognize.

Not recut and not 4R1L, so not Plate 1L:

B) If the left side ornaments are notably incomplete, then this mostly eliminates Plate 1E from the picture, and leaves you with Plate 2 or 3. Since Plate 3 material is pretty scarce, you should usually start with Plate 2.

C) If the left side ornaments are fairly complete, then it could be 1E, 2 or 3. It often pays to just walk through all of them in this case, but if you are also familiar with the overall color and impressions traditionally exhibited by 1E stamps versus 2 & 3, then that can help steer you as to where to start.

Plates 2 and 3 were in use around the same time, and share very similar ink-colors and appearances, with the exception that heavy ink-film and mottling almost always means plate 3. Small fine plate cracks tends to mean Plate 3.

Early impressions from Plate 1E often have finely detailed printings, which are often readily recognizable. The lack of such an appearance does not eliminate Plate 1E, as the 1852 printings from this plate often differ greatly from the earlier 1851 ones.

For anyone serious enough to actually want to teach yourself about the progression of colors and appearances of 1c stamps from these plates over time, the best way to do it is to buy dated covers. Minimally, get 1 cover for every 3 month period that a given plate was in use. More is better of course. You can buy 1c circulars, since they usually have a date inside, if not also on the outside, and they aren't too expensive (all relative I know). Don't buy ones where the color is chemically altered, or is faded, or has too heavy a cancellation. Now, sort them all chronologically, and by plate. Now you have a color/impression chart, from which, you will see progressions of colors and wear over time, which dramatically alters the appearance. You can often date off-cover single stamps once you understand this. Understanding this well can further help you predict which plate a stamp will be from, not to mention help you establish a date for undated covers.

I'm not sure how helpful this write-up will be, but for someone starting out at this, it should at least point you as to some questions to ask yourself when plating these.

I have decided not to cut the stamp, just crop the photo before adding it to the database. I just do not want to risk loosing what detail is there on the left.