Question About The Cancel On This Post Card With Sc# 331 A138 1c Green Affixed To Stamp Box

I have found a very nice hand-coloured post card that was made in Germany, I find it to be a very attractive and well made card:




and here is the cancel enlarged:



The message on the card is from Mrs. Mitchell to Miss Nellie Taft who is living on Howard St in Petaluma, California - Mrs Mitchell is apparently Nellie's teacher because she is noting that Nellie was not in class and that Nellie had "pink eye" the last time she saw her, she is hoping Nellie is now recovered. Mrs. Mitchell signs the card "Lovingly your teacher". Things sure were different in those days.

I have a problem with the cancel, I cannot find a year on it anywhere, I have been over it with a loupe over and over again looking for the year. It is strange to me that the cancel reads "Petaluma, Cal - Dec 13 9AM" with nothing about a year.

I do admire this particular cancel with its swooping US flag with 13 stars on it - very nice in my opinion. Could it be that this cancel was only used over a certain time period in a certain year? Is that how one can tell the year?

LittleRiverPhil did tell me about a book that has all the town cancels ever used in every town, in every county of the state of California. I don't remember the name of the book, but the guy who put it together lived in the same town that is mentioned on the front of this card, Sebastopol, California.

So do I need to hunt the name of this book up and try to find it to answer my question? I have the name written down and can find it if need be. At the time he told me about this book I was floored that someone had compiled such a massive collection of cancels, and I had a hard time thinking of using such a large book, but now I see the need.

The color on this card is gorgeous under magnification, I did find an instance of this card that sold on ebay, the card that sold was not postally used, it was a blank card. They say the card is hand coloured, which I looked up. I could not find a definitive way to determine this other than looking at the color under magnification. Here is the listing for the sold card:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MISSION-GR...AOSwmphaEjBo

Now I am wondering - is a blank card worth more than a postally used card? It seems to me it would depend on what kind of collection you have, an unused post card collection or a postally used post card collection. In other words it depends on your ulterior motives, like most things I guess. I don't know if there is a straight answer to this question?

The stamp means the earliest this card could have been mailed was 1908-09 which is when the Sc#331 was issued. The fact that the post card was printed in Germany puts it being printed before WWI - the card was printed before 1915.

This leaves me with a window of 1908 - 1915. The last thing to look at is the amount of postage paid to mail the card, which was 1 cent. The cost of 1 cent to mail a post card was in effect from May 1873 until the postage amount changed to 2 cents, Nov 2, 1917.

Of course none of this really pins down anything for certain, but it does give me a date range to work with (1908 to 1917). Just because the card was printed in Germany by 1915 at the latest doesn't mean that is when it was mailed - I am using the date the postage went to 2 cents in 1917 as the upper range for this date range.

So, I am left with a date range to work with unless someone can help me precisely date the card by the cancel - something I am not able to do. I would appreciate knowing more, very much, if anyone can help me with more information. Thank you for your time in reading this lengthy post. Ho Ho Ho, Julie

Julie,

The message is hand dated at the top (left).

I can make out Nov 12th 191? Perhaps you can see more in the original.

Jan

The date in the teachers hand is Nov 12th, 1910 - thank you so much Jan, I feel pretty dumb again, missing something so obvious Thank you for being so kind as to let me know that the date was right there, it was right under my nose all along.

But, what if the sender hadn't dated the card, is there no way to tell from the cancel what date it was canceled? Or, as I mentioned earlier in the first post, do I have to find the massive book that lists all the cancels for all the towns in all the counties of California?

Anyway, I have been an idiot lately, I have not been so well the past week or so, my voice is quite hoarse and my throat hurts, this has been going on for well over a week now - just am not up to snuff.

Thank you again Jan, I so much appreciate your responding to my post. Thank you very, very much and Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a Fabulous 2018 to you, Julie

This cancel was only used from 1909 to 1911. it is the first A-dial variety.

Thank you so much chasa, for posting that information. By using the term a-dial I was able to locate a sample of the same cancel - that is far better than thumbing through a book of all the towns in California as far as I am concerned. I suppose the word "a-dial" might mean "Automatic" dial?? I did read that the USPS was experimenting with different ways to cancel during the this time frame at the start of the 20th century. I love it when the information all ties in and points to the same thing. Thank you and Merry Christmas to you today, Julie

Good morning Julie,
The book is California Town Postmarks 1850 -1935 compiled by John H. Williams (and the members of the Western Cover Society) published in 1997.
Your Petaluma cancel appears to be SON-4150, but is missing the year date for any number of reasons. Below is the relevant page of the Williams book, with the suspect postmark indicated. To be positive, you'll need to measure it.
Notice in the description of the cancel (blue box) where it says Dimensions, 1 c means 1 circle, the number is in mm, the L number is the nearest points between the first letter of both town and state, P & C in this case.

Merry Christmas [:)

An alternative resource here is what Chasa used - Frederick Langford's Flag Cancel Encyclopedia, which lists the 7,000+ varieties of flag machine cancels used in the US (and some abroad as well). The "A" dial is just the Langford type system; (A and B are the most common types; the B has the year date split into two two-digit segments).

Merry Christmas to you Little River Phil, I hope you are having a nice Christmasey day today. Thank you so much for taking the time to post about the cancel book for the state of california. Now that I have seen a page from the book I have fallen in love with it, it is a wonderful thing to have. Thank you for highlighting the pertinent facts for me. It is amazing that this book exists.

So, I'm sorry, I have to ask this, you said:


Can you tell me a reason or two that this might be so I can have some idea of why there would not be a year on a cancel? I still find it odd, it may not be, but to my way of reasoning it is.

The other thing I am surprised about is that the swooping flag portion of the cancel is not looking like the "official" part of the cancel. The swooping flag cancel that I saw earlier on the internet when I looked up A-dial was from Philadelphia I think, on a 3 cent stamp. Obviously more than one town had the A-dial cancel machine.

Very, very nice Don, thank you for sharing, now I want one of those books! To be honest when you told me about it earlier, my brain sort of seized up at the size, it seemed like it would be difficult to handle, but now that I see it - it is lovely. Have a fabulous holiday, Julie

Thank you paperhistory, I did not see your post when posting to littleriverphil. It is good to know there is another source of looking these cancels up, I will seek it out. So, the "A' does not mean automatic, I get it - thank you for clearing up that little fact for me, I very much appreciate it. Thank you for naming the source. Happy Christmas Day to you paperhistory, I hope you have a wonderful one, Julie

Oh, I just noticed that LittleRiverPhil's book uses the A-dial term as well, so it is a very well established way of describing a cancel, paperhistory said:

I was surprised to see the term used in LittleRiverPhil's book - it is looking like it is a very well established and well known term. Thank you, Julie

I own a copy, but it's John's work. Although, I've modified the two counties that I use regulary. Relish the chance to use the other 51 counties.




Petaluma was a pretty busy office in 1910. Imagine the sorting desk, as bag after bag is dumped onto it, piles of cards, letters. May have had a letter under the card as it went thru the machine. Or the clerk forgot the year slug.

Thank you LittleRiverPhil for telling me two ways that it could have happened that there is no year on the cancel - I really had no idea and could not envision why the year would be missing, now I understand that it normally would have been there but something must have happened to this cancel that the year is missing like a missing slug or two letters on top of each other as you say.

Thanks a bunch and thank you so very much for all of the great help you have given me, I do so appreciate it. Julie