Pr42 From Apfelbaum's

Missy: Knowledgeable collectors not wanted and yes, I too was told "why would you buy from someone who sells you bad stamps?"

Disturbing conversations.

Stay away.

Depends upon what you are looking for. I, too, have heard the complaints about the Apfelbaum firm in recent years. Yet the fact remains that their lack of knowledge, sorely inadequate descriptions, questionable omissions on describing of faults, etc., an American Revenue Association member bought the unique copy of RM363, the 50¢ Maryland stamped paper, from Apfelbaum. Not the first time it was offered, but the second time it was offered at a lower price! It was misidentified as RM362, the 30¢ Maryland. These were the subject of the landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision, McCullough vs. The State of Maryland. As both a philatelic and historic item, this item is highly significant. Are there more of the 50¢ denomination out there? Only time, and maybe decades, will tell. But Apfelbaum has the distinction of offering this gem of philately, albeit misdescribed. I only wish I had been the one to spot this unique rarity.

It took exactly one time dealing with Missy and experiencing the Apfelbaum "way" to realize that the juice was not worth the squeeze. Another one on my no-no list. Personally, given their T&C's I do not believe that it is their technical obligation to pay for the cert but rather a moral one and since they will not that kind of says a lot.

I agree with Ron. It depends on how much of a gambler one is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I bought a narcotic collection a couple of years ago from another dealer who has been written up extensively in these posts on a par with Apfelbaum. Many collectors avoid him as well. That collection netted me an RJA29B and the S. Co. narcotic provisional that has been the subject of a thread on this board. I think that makes up for more than a few of the duds I've ended up stuck with.

A moron can sell a rare stamp. A convicted felon can sell a rare stamp. Neither is a justification for supporting a seller who is damaging the hobby.

What is a justification for supporting a seller who is known to be damaging the hobby? Thinking to yourself, 'I'll prioritize what I want over the concerns about supporting this seller'. Some folks are willing to do this, some are not.
Don

..,,,, and there in lies the problem.

"We are too big and too old to have a customer tell US how to do business."

Truth be known, I have probably spent $50K or more with Apfelbaums, but well over 1/4 million with the more customer-friendly auction companies. If Apfelbaum's paid a little more attention to me and others, instead of being so self righteous, these numbers might be reversed. But then, they probably don't care.......

I was amazed that Apfelbaum didn't come up in the discussion about Anthony's.

http://www.stampsmauritius.com/Apfe...dsGuilty.htm

And SAN carries Apfelbaum auctions everyday.

Tex, Simple. It didn't fit the narrative.

I would argue that the use of certificates is not necessarily an endorsement of the quality of the opinion but rather a means to maximize the realization of the item. I have zero respect for PSE certificates but if I was to sell an item that should be graded to maximize my return, I would probably hold my nose and do it.

I have bought a bunch of lots from Apfelbaums and never had a problem. All of my purchases have been large lots of Israel material. I have been able to buy them at very low cost, and in all cases, I was able to sell off the items I didn't need from the lots to more than cover what the entire lot cost me. I had no concerns that the material wasn't genuine, as other than a few early sets, there just isn't a lot of counterfeit material, or really any way to mis-identify the vast majority of Israel material.

The OP asked an interesting question about a seller's obligation to a buyer, but the conversation has derailed. Too bad.

How is "genuine" defined by Apfelbaum? By expertizers? I prefer the word "authentic", it means more to me, but I'd love to hear how the rest of you define it. For example, to my definition a postage stamp with repairs can be genuine but it is not authentic.

Not to seem contrarian, but "lifetime guarantee of genuineness" is a return privilege. It is NOT the same as "we will pay the cert costs for a negative opinion" especially in light of their published terms and conditions which clearly state that cert costs are borne by the purchaser.

You can dislike it as much as you want, but in this particular case they are not doing anything nefarious. They have a clearly stated policy. Don't like? Don't buy.

I have seen high profile dealers and auction houses state that cert costs are paid only if the purchase price was above $XXX, which I get, because no one wants to be nickel and dimed to death paying $30 cert fees for $10 purchases; there's no upside for the dealer.

I also note that very few, if any philatelic entities state what their policy is in the event of a declined opinion. That is NOT the same as a negative opinion, and thus the purchaser could very well have to eat the cert costs, in full compliance with stated terms.

Realistically speaking, if you want to be assured of returns on items placed on extension, you should be dealing with real auction houses, not the dealers masquerading as auction houses on SAN, i.e., the supposed "auctions" that consist of the house's own inventory.

Just as with ebay, when you deal with the Apfelbaums and Aldriches of the philatelic world, make no assumptions and be darned sure that YOU can determine what the item is without the need for extension. Personally, if I am venturing into "expertization required" territory, I usually pony up the bucks to either buy the item already with a cert or from a top tier dealer or auction house with a reputation beyond reproach.

IMO, these types of items are not the place for bargain hunting.

Members of this forum include a lot of experts in their field. Others come to this forum to learn from the experts. I wholeheartedly agree that when purchasing items that need certificates, one should not do so unless it has a certificate or there is a transparent path to obtaining a certificate and a refund policy if the stamp gets a thumbs down. By transparent path, I mean a well stated policy by the purchaser.

Stamp bourses present the same problems. The only difference is that we can examine the stamp in question. Stamp bourses have been a wonderful source of material for me, especially when I am more knowledgable than the dealers. But in return for being able to cherry pick for bargains, I rarely pass up the opportunity to educate the dealer on misidentifications, some being offered erroneously as a more expensive item, but also frequently an item that is a better item. I still recall an occasion decades ago at Eric Jackson't table where I found an item that was misidentified as a relatively cheap item, pointing out that it was a more expensive item. He thanked me and offered to sell it to me at the listed (cheaper) price. It should work both ways at the bourse.

This thread is an interesting read. I'm late to the party but here's my Apfelbaum experience. About 20 years ago I purchased stamps from their auctions. I was selective and had some good finds, but overall I have found their material is raw ( ungraded) for a reason. If you want to buy hole fillers for your collection and can buy at 7-10% of Scott I get it. I was eventually excommunicated from Apfelbaum because "I returned too much." It was garbage. In 20 years of buying through Siegel, Kelleher, Spink, Bennett, or Regency I've only returned a single stamp. Then, there's the old scandal with Apfelbaum so maybe that in itself answers many questions.
Chris