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The First 70 Japanese Stamps: How Do You Spot A Counterfeit?

 
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Japan
36 Posts
Posted 02/10/2018   8:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add JPR to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The Scott Catalog says there are many counterfeits of the early stamps from Japan. It also says they fool collectors. How would we know? Do we need certification to be sure? If we send stamps off to the experts, what do they look for? Can't we find these things ourselves? Who's to say they haven't been fooled as well?

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United States
8956 Posts
Posted 02/10/2018   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JPR, I am not an expert on this, though I do collect Japanese Occupation stamps of th Dutch Indies and know a little about those.
But if you use Google and search for "Books on Japanese counterfeits" you get quite some different ones. Good luck with your endeavour,


Peter
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Posted 02/10/2018   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know about Japan, but I suspect that even there, fakes/forgeries outnumber the genuine by a great number. The largest number of forgeries have been produced by the same method as the genuine, so the overall appearance is very close. These were made to be included with sheets sold to tourists as souvenirs with genuine later stamps and postal card cut squares often mixed in.

Those are fairly easily detectable with the characters sanko or mozo also etched in the design or handstamped:
http://www.isjp.org/cd-titlepage see stamp at left
Of course, there are other forgeries of rare kana/plate number varieties also as well as fakes of some very common stamps.


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How would we know?

The same organization has a forgery reference in CD-ROM or printed version (long out of print, I believe).


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Do we need certification to be sure?

Not in the case of most stamps. In the case of rarities, I would say yes since you would want to know about any faults or repairs as well as being assured about it being genuine.


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If we send stamps off to the experts, what do they look for?

It's by using the same reference as given above at first look. Also, nearly all Japanese stamps have existed in complete sheets or have been reconstructed by matching multiples. Photos were made. The earlies have enough unique characteristics that they are quite individual. So a genuine must match a known stamp EXACTLY.


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Can't we find these things ourselves?

See reference given above. I have run into collectors that owned such references and ignored or did not understand what was in them. So it's all about someone doing a proper and thorough job of identification.


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Who's to say they haven't been fooled as well?

With Japan stamps of that period, that is very unlikely. Their "out", like all experts have, is that they render opinions, not absolute law. That said, the early Japanese stamps are not that hard to separate forgeries from genuine compared to other areas not so thoroughly studied. Expertising cancels and covers is harder, but experts should have even more references in that area.

The ISJP and others have been doing detection of forgeries for many, many years and are trusted. If you decide not to trust them, then you are back to square one, not knowing if you have a genuine or forgery.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/10/2018 9:31 pm
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Posted 02/10/2018   9:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is one resource that might be helpful:

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...-spud-paper/

and from the same site, some more resources for Japan:

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-japan/

You need to spend time with stamps and spend money for resources (generally...though some are free) in order to learn to spot forgeries. Even then, for some things there is no substitute for an expert opinion. But yes, it is possible to learn quite a bit with effort. It's worth it.
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Posted 02/10/2018   11:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philatarium to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have been studying the early issues of Japan off and on for several years now, with the assistance of resources (both print and human) from the ISJP. I am still far from good at being able to capably detect forgeries, and wish I had more time to be able to put into it. (I hope to sometime in the near future.)

So, that said, it is really hard to be able to rule in an early Japanese stamp as genuine, but learning two techniques in particular can help rule out a lot of them (in other words, to be able to determine that they are forgeries).

(1) It was mentioned above, but learning how to spot the little Japanese characters that indicate a forgery (the so-called "signed forgeries") will help you identify a good chunk of the forgeries out there (though by no means most or all of them).

The ISJP has a lot of information about them on their website here:

http://www.isjp.org/Forgeries

Once you read through that page, then click on a stamp type on the left to see specific examples of where those characters can be found. It takes some practice, but once you learn how to break this code, it really helps weed out the forgeries.

However, this technique only works with those stamps that were "signed". There's still a bunch that don't have those tell-tale signs, and it takes other, more difficult (in my opinion) techniques to identify those. And the techniques vary according to the stamp, so it's a laborious process, and requires a lot of knowledge to really do accurately.

(2) Another technique, for the early stamps that have the chrysanthemum crest, is to count the number of petals. A genuine stamp will always have 16 petals. If it has more or less, then you can rule it out as a forgery. If it has 16 petals, you can't necessarily rule it in as genuine, however, so be aware. But again, this is another easy technique to be able to rule some out.

And just to illustrate the challenges for authenticating Japan's earliest stamps (the dragon stamps), the expertiser I know always literally plates the stamp, in order to be able to prove genuineness.

For members of the ISJP, they have quite affordable identification services (although actual issuance of a certificate is a little more costly), and the prices are really not too bad for non-members, compared to a lot of other organizations and certification services.

In summary, it is quite a challenge. But mastering those 2 techniques above will really help.
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-- Japan, Korea, Trucial States & more on HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

long-term member: American Philatelic Society, Int'l Society for Japanese Philately, & others
Valued Member
Japan
36 Posts
Posted 02/11/2018   06:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JPR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the useful information, everyone. Looks like I've got some studying to do.

In the meantime, there is a gorgeous dragon on ebay right now. Is this too good to be true?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NobleSpiri....m1438.l2649


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France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 02/11/2018   07:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JPR: The pic is lousy in the listing,and anyway,the 500 mon looks fake.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Renge/1164/
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3224 Posts
Posted 02/11/2018   8:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 500 mon stamp is fake. It doesn't have the secret mark it should and does not plate to pos. 16, the only one without the secret mark. Also, if the color is accurate per my monitor, that's not a correct color. Also the long threads of paper and adherences on the back are typical of the forgeries from tourist sheets, souvenirs made for tourists. The latter is by no means a definitive test of forgeries vs. genuine stamps, but should make a collector suspicious when found.

I might add that the seller noted is not very good at identifying forgeries and alterations overall; they do show 3 views in the body of the description here, which is helpful. Caveat emptor.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/11/2018 8:11 pm
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Learn More...
United States
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Posted 02/12/2018   03:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not only do you have to know the stamp you need to know the seller. NobleSpirit. Caveat Emptor.
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Valued Member
Japan
36 Posts
Posted 02/12/2018   5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JPR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
FWIW, I sent a message to Noble Spirit saying: "My experts" (that's you guys!) tell me its a forgery.

They took down the listing.
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United States
713 Posts
Posted 02/12/2018   5:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wkusau to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That counts as a win...for today.
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Valued Member
Japan
36 Posts
Posted 02/12/2018   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JPR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Haha.

Actually, I was surprised how many of the dragons are openly sold as forgeries. I suppose it would be good to buy some just to study what not to buy.
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Posted 02/17/2018   02:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lots, perhaps even all, early Japanese stamps got "reproduced" to sell to collectors cheaply. Many of them were sold on what were called "tourist sheets". These were large pieces of paper containing spaces for many of the early Japanese stamps which were then attached and sold very cheaply. My rule is that any early Japanese stamp that looks too neat, clean, or tidy is most likely a fake. Not the most reliable rule, I admit! But it's generally accurate. The early Japanese stamp linked above was so obviously one of these copies it wasn't even necessary for me to look at it for more than a couple of seconds to tell it was a forgery, copy, or reproduction, whichever you prefer to call it. Too neat, wrong color, and so on.

If you join the International Society for Japanese Philately, you will be able to purchase fairly inexpensively a few very well-done paperback booklets showing Japanese forgeries of early issues. They are definitely worth joining, in my opinion.

I'm not bothered by forgeries, as long as I know what they are. Many of them were produced to sell to collectors who could not possibly afford the real stamps, and this was often considered to be a service to collectors and not so much a bad thing. Even using the word "forgery" which implies an attempt at very serious cheating for money is a little too much for what these reproduction stamps were intended to be. Some may disagree, but because these reproductions have been so well detailed and written about, collectors should not be fooled by them and can buy them knowing they aren't the real original stamps -- and fill album spaces with them.

They should probably be marked "copy" or "reproduction" or some such word on the back, however, so no one is fooled. Some collectors who know what they're doing, I've noticed, have a little rubber stamp with one of these words on it which they gently apply to the back of known reproductions. I generally just hand print "faux" (fake) or "copy" on the back and also write that underneath or next to the stamp in my album (so no future buyer is fooled).
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Edited by DrewM - 02/17/2018 02:54 am
Valued Member
Japan
36 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   09:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JPR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. Actually, I just sent in my application form to join ISJP. And I ordered their CD on how to spot forgeries. I think it will be very useful.
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United States
7074 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   8:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please give us a progress report.
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