Where Is The Grill On This Stamp?

"One is necessary and one isn't".

Sometimes it is if you want to know what stamp you have. And the fact that a cancel is necessary does not change the fact that the stamp is no longer in an "original unadulterated state". No one is forcing anyone to use the method; personally I find the reasons given for not using it range from marginal to insulting.

Dynamode -

Don't let the conversation/debate deter you. As far as I can tell, you haven't posted any pictures of your stamps yet. So let's try to deal with your simple question:




Harm - no. Detract from appearance/value? Yes - to some. Just think of all of the collectors who don't want catalog numbers written on the back of the stamp.

My advice would be that it should only be used as a last resort method.

So let's move to your next comment/question:




Well this one is easy: if you can't identify it, then how do you know it isn't a 'high catalog' stamp??

A used Scott #63 is not a 'high catalog' stamp - but with a grill, it is much more valuable! Same goes for all other grilled stamps - the underlying stamp is not the determining issue for value...

Post some good scans & you'll get some expert opinions in short order...

mdroth.

One thing I have learned in the last few years is. Always assume its the cheapest.

Do as much homework as you are capable of, then ask the question if you think it could be.

With all due respect you are getting into apples and oranges. I said "original unaltered," not "mint state." The difference? How a stamp fares in the hands of postal authorities while in use contributes to the unaltered original state of a used stamp. Unless graphite was used to cancel a stamp, its addition to a stamp that had none prior to our administration of that treatment is an alteration of state. "Original" in this context refers to the state before non-postal tampering took place.

As for the innocence of a little bit of graphite, consider how we have come to condemn lightly writing the catalog number of a stamp on its reverse in pencil. The more intrinsically valuable a stamp the more that practice is viewed as defective, requiring mention. But why? Is it not due to the demand for stamps still in a "pristine" state, even if used? Consider the premiums for 98J and 100.

As for the long use of this method, for most of those years we did not have better alternative technologies available to us, and many stamps were adulterated. Today we do, and when preservation of state really matters we use them. The PF has had the VSC6000 for several years now, and it should have made their use of the graphite test obsolete.

My personal concern? I have a used 90c Banknote which is a good candidate for an I-grill. I don't want anyone smearing graphite on it as long as a better alternative exists.

In the matter of reading grills I say this: using graphite alters the stamp. If you cannot read the grill, call for help or send it out for certification, but specify that only non-intrusive testing is to be used, i.e. one that leaves no residual.

I spend much of my time breaking down and cataloging large lots and collections for someone else. If I cannot read a grill, I use the methods at my disposal. If that means a light dusting of graphite, then so be it. I happen to be very good at it and the quantities involved are tiny. BTW, writing numbers on the reverse vs checking a grill with a bit of graphite is just as much apples and oranges as anything I wrote.

essayk
by that set of standards no stamp that has been album hinged, mounted or placed on or in a manila stock card or book should be considered pristine. as for hand stamps, experts marks catalog nos or the like ditto. who is capable of stating that today's non invasive methods will not affect the future condition of the item. that said many of the worlds classic issues have had one or all of the above done to them whatever the reason. this does not reduce their rarity or desireability. I am all for preservation of what we have so that others can enjoy them in the future, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

You have the floor. Please explain.

all of us of a certain age have seen the ink residues left on the backs of old time dealers manila stock books. hinges will leave a gum residue on items and soaking them off will remove some of the sizing used in the manufacture of the paper some times affecting the item. sunlight, poor storage and atmospheric conditions also affect items. the quest for "pristine" items had led to all kinds of improvements in the name of preservation; many of which are not disclosed. all expert committees use many forms of references equipment and experience to determine both id and condition of submitted patients. it's a hobby and in the end it is the collector who will determine what degree of pristine suits their collecting level.

That's right but every time you use graphite on a stamp you have decided for every future collector that that stamp will not be owned in a clean, unaltered state. Nice.

As a grill specialist, I am particularly interested in studying the dimensions (including "roofline") of each grill point for a long-term study to "plate" grills based upon dimensional variations measured using image processing. I have seen graphite application compress the points slightly, making my optical measurements more difficult. Because not all graphite application pressure is equal, I would like to discourage its use in hopes to preserve as much dimensional information as possible.

randya
i offered a method used by past and current collectors and experts for many years in answer to a question. fyi I do not collect classic us or grills. collectors tastes and identification methods have changed over time and will continue to do so in the future. the use of as small brush to apply graphite will help with any pressure distortion issues. it is still up to each individual collector to avail themselves of the information and options open to them and decide what they will accept and what degree of preservation stewardship they wish to take on. I will not comment further on this subject as I feel the question has had adequate answers and discussion.

So now another method ?.

"That's right but every time you use graphite on a stamp you have decided for every future collector that that stamp will not be owned in a clean, unaltered state".

Also true for every time a stamp is hinged, or soaked off a cover, or used out of period, or cut from a multiple for grading, or altered, or some other reason.

Does the PF hinge stamps during certification?

I think there are two things to separate here: one thing is what every single collector does, but a totally other thing is what an organization like the PF does. Those things are a bit discussed all together here. I would be very surprised if it's true that the PF (or also PSE or others) uses graphite to see the grill better in these days of quite good technology.