Are Dealers Unfairly Maligned?

Every once in a while I hear someone at my local stamp club remark to the effect that the price of something was high because it was a dealer selling it. To me it seems a lot of people have the same kind of negative feelings about dealers that would be reserved for pimps or drug dealers.

Sure they charge more money for things, but they have to make a living from their business, and no one begrudges a supermarket for charging a higher price than the local farmer.

How do others feel about this?

Nature of the beast. Most stamp collectors are cranky cheapskates, so anyone charging anything even close to retail is a villain. They're likely to take the same approach at the grocery store.

Some dealers buy at really low prices, and then try to get as much as possible when they sell.
I guess it is a case by case basis with each dealer.

I do not begrudge anyone a profit. Whatever the market will bear. I do not include ebay in the equation because it is a flea market.

I buy from a dealer in Tenn. Some of the stuff he sends me is priced close to catalog value, usually things that are NH and hard to find, but a lot is half CV or less. He seems like a nice man, although I have never met him and almost certainly never will.

Possibly the huge dealers like Mystic, who often charge even more than CV, give dealers a bad name. But therir cheaper stamps and much of their equipment are fairly priced.

Don

Have dealers changed or have buyers changed? The traditional attributes of a good dealer is no secret; treat people fairly and be knowledgeable about the material you sell.

But I think there has been a marketplace evolution, the 'mom and pop' shops that many of us loved have given way to new sales venues. As anyone who was a retailer and owned a store in the 1970s-1990s knows, once a WalMart or other mass merchandiser came to town things changed. Consumers proved they were quite willing to give up knowledgeable assistance for low prices. Now the seeking of 'deals' or the 'best price' has now transitioned to the online marketplace.

Some of the legacy stamp dealers have not yet figured out how to make this transition. Some have figured it out but are the equivalent of stamp dealer 'WalMarts' (cheap crap and little/no knowledge of what they sell).

Today's ebay sellers HAVE to support the ebay return policy and think of this as 'customer service'; it is not. Today's ebay sellers think of the ebay's Rating system as 'marketing'; it is not.

I had a few transactions with a ebay seller who truly offers customer service. When I had to return a purchased item, they went far beyond the standard ebay policy. They automated the entire 'no questions asked' return authorization process, starting with an online form which verified my purchase. The form was simple and once submitted, printed out a pre-paid return label for me to use. Painless, quick, and easy. Obviously they have factored in the cost of returns into their pricing but have also cut costs by automating the process.

Until stamp dealers figure out how to do business in today's marketplaces, I think they will continue to get a bad rap. But buyers should also understand that they are part of this problem, the marketplace responds to their buying habits. If we keep supporting those seller which are clueless, then we have no one to blame other then ourselves.

Personally, I seek out quality sellers and adjust my purchase price expectations accordingly. I avoid the false economy of the 'WalMart dealers' and do not participate in the moronic ebay rating system. I believe that it is possible to find and use quality sellers but it sure it not easy.
Don

I think, too, that the buying side of the equation is what really rankles collectors.

We all know that a dealer, especially with a store, but even with only a web presence, has overhead and must make a profit to stay in business. I doubt anyone really believes anything else as far as the sales end goes, but where does their inventory come from? Us, and the collectors before us.

We don't really get upset with other types of companies when they charge market prices for the goods we buy such as clothing, shoes, furniture or other goods. One of the reasons we don't is that we buy these goods with the full expectation to use them until they are no longer useful and realize that we are not going to get anything back when we are done with the item except a trip outside to the garbage can.

The same is not true with stamps. We know, and should be realistic enough to admit it to ourselves, that we are not going to make money on our collections. The problem is, we also know we will get something back because the dealers need the stamps we have for their inventory.

This is where the love-hate relationship begins. We want to get as much back as we can, so we want to pay as little as possible for the stamps we buy. Dealers MUST pay as little as they can, if they hope to remain in business for long. So, why the complaints about what dealers sell prices?

We know that Harry just sold his U.S. collection of 20th century mint stamps. Harry was a cheapskate. He always hit the dealer face value boxes and rarely bought an individual stamp. He also hinged everything as mounts were too expensive for his tastes. When Harry pops into the next stamp club meeting, he's bad-mouthing that cheapskate dealer because he only got 30% of face value for his entire collection. Everyone hears him.

Add to this, the constant press from Linn's, the AP and other sources about the high prices realized at auction. We all have a stamp or two which has shown up in those same auctions (albeit usually NOT the ones which brought the stratospheric prices) and we secretly harbor the hope (and it is a hope & a prayer) that we'll be able to get Bill Gross prices for our material when we sell it at auction.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

From my experience, local farmers charge much more than supermarkets. And I've always been willing to pay the local farmer a bit more than the mega-supermarket.

I do not make that distinction among stamp dealers...

Are Dealers unfairly maligned?
Well some are and some are not.
Any conversation between stamp collectors will turn to Dealers.
Some will say that "Dealer A ripped me off" and inevitably someone will say "Dealer A is great".
That's how it is. Its the same when we talk about doctors, plumbers, teachers, pastors etc.
If a Dealer gets a lot of negativity from other collectors, then there is a pattern...its always caveat emptor. and sometimes its caveat VERY emptor.
As the hobby declines, the number of dealers declines and this can mean that we are "forced" to deal with a dealer about whom we have reservations.
Yes a dealer is entitled to make a profit. The extent to which a dealer can exploit customers probably depends on our perspective....a bit like taking over a pharmacy firm and hiking the prices to make them unaffordable to many...again a matter of perspective.
I tend to think of Dealers as being in a pyramid.
From the top (the big auction houses) down thru established dealers thru (typically) ebay down to flea markets and yard sales (car boot sales). There will always be hustlers attempting to climb the greasy pole and some have more scruples than others.
There are three components to Stamp Collecting....the Post Office, the Dealers and the Collectors. To a greater or lesser extent, we all push the envelope but our Hobby is at its best when nobody seeks an unfair advantage.

When I was 9 or 10 years old, stamp dealers were the only place to get stamps. Jamestown Stamps, Littleton Stamps, Kenmore Stamps, H.E. Harris, etc. They sent you approvals and you picked out what you wanted or could afford and sent the rest back. They also provide you with the philatelic supplies you need.

There were also one or two "stamps stores" (dealers) in town that you could walk into and browse through their books or that cabinet with the rotating shelves. Kids were probably considered more of a nuisance than if they were an actual adult customer, but still they offered lots that were affordable and attractive to kids.

Somewhere along the line that relationship between buyer and dealer has parted. Maybe it was a Puff The Magic Dragon moment when kid collectors became adult collectors. When fun and magic was over taken by drive and finances.

Who knows. If just seems that buyer-dealer relationship has changed and that old connection is long gone.

My great, great grandfather, the postmaster, main livelihood was running a general store and produce shipping service for southern Indiana farmers in the 1890's. He served a very small rural community. His wisdom was: "If you treat people right they will tell their neighbors. If you treat one person wrong they will tell the entire community."

Yep, the times they are always changing. The back yard fence and small in person gatherings have evolved into blogs and social media.

DEALERS FAIRLY MALIGNED ----Yes they are ....and they deserve it .

If I go to your local stamp show and wear a suit and you and me both wear our APS 20 years membership badges ,believe me the dealers would treat us with kid gloves and we could negotiate some nice deals .
But if I go without you and wear a rock n roll t-shirt and tell the dealer I am a worldwide collector ......then the B.S. starts . I get the following more times than I can keep track of "The dealer just bought the lot and had not a chance to review it" but is offering it to me .Then I get the lot he keeps under the counter and offers it to me at a lost price to him but it is full of forgeries but doesn't say that . He also has the catalog value written under all the high value damaged stamps.

What you don't understand is very good dealers plays with a thin margin from experience buyers . But when they get a beginner they know the profit margin on sales could be 300% or 400% for the junk on his table .

Price is not an issue because you control whether or not to purchase. Integrity and honesty on the other hand are going the way of the dodo bird not only in stamp collecting but in all the nooks and crannies of society.

Many wise Words from serious collectors. It has been said that the sellers have to compensate their loss to serious philatelists by selling stamps at top prices to ordinary collectors. Nowadays I do not know if this is the truth, but in my opinion buying from a person in flesh and blood is more positive than picking items from lists on the internet. You may disagree - but personal approach matters"!

Was it Oscar Wilde who said something like: "I have the simplest of tastes. I desire only the best." I see no need to malign dealers. Stamping is a hobby, not an investment. We buy at retail and sell at wholesale, as is the case with most other collectibles.

I stay within a budget, more or less. If a dealer has something I need, I'll buy it, assuming the price is within reason. If a dealer is charging full catalog for something I think is worth 60%, we'll either negotiate or I won't buy. What happens with my collections after I'm gone? Been taken care of. Of course, I won't be around anyway to worry about it.

If I may add my two cents... I have too much to say on this topic.

The sheer volume of altered stamps one can find in e.g. Scott International albums is evidence that the "good old days" were not all roses and sunshine either.

I don't like some dealer practices. One that rankles me is that some buy "bad" collections for high prices simply because they know suckers will buy the material. But -

Yes, dealers are unfairly maligned. Collectors are no better or worse than dealers overall, IMHO. Sometimes we take the dealers' time, expertise and investment too much for granted.