Will Ebay Ever Be A Safe Place For Collectors To Buy Stamps?

While the link is gone, the original listing is still available with a little more effort. Using Advanced search and searching by item number (listing number), with "Sold Listings" checked, I was able to retrieve the original listing. However, you're correct that it's better for SCF to have an explicit record in the thread, in the form of a screen capture image.

As "Studebaker51" point out the basic issue is not ebay. The problem of scamming existed long before the Internet.
Nearly every collector I know has an anecdote about a certain rogue trader.
A typical anecdote is that he did not have a used version of a certain stamp in stock and asked a customer to come back in a couple of days. When the customer returned he was sold a "used" stamp.....the mint stamp which the dealer had actually cancelled himself.
but rather like ebay turning a blind eye so did other dealers. The rogue trader was a "character".
I think it is difficult to scam "collectors" but easier to scam novices.
Over decades we have all been scammed in some way or another.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I wonder how many potential collectors leave the hobby because of scamming. After being scammed a few times, we all either learn from it or give up.

Of course scamming has always existed. ebay has brought it to levels never imagined with every scammer on the planet finding virtual safe haven. Try as you will to equate it to past sleazy actors. ebay is the French Connection compared to the corner dealer.

Buyer education is not the cure all either. The Philip Ryle Cartel for example has items that entice experienced and knowledgeable collectors. The only reason that there is any awareness of these items is because he has been operating for so long. ebay has done nothing.

We always end up back at the same old place. ebay is not really to blame. Buyers need to be more educated. Blah blah blah

We can doom-and-gloom all we want, but the environment for the novice collector is far more protective now than it was when I first got started collecting, where if you bought via mail order, the payment methods had ZERO buyer protections (check, money order, or cash) and it was the Wild Wild West with respect to return policies and guarantees.

Hate ebay all you want, but it affords the buyer all manner of protections... now whether the buyer is educated enough to utilize those protections and perform due diligence prior to making purchases is something that no selling venue will ever solve.

For example, people laud the APS Stamp Store as a safe haven for purchasing... and comparatively speaking, it is. However, there are still misdescribed lots there, and if the buyer doesn't realize that they've purchased a spurious item within the return period, all the protections in the world matter not one whit.

Newsflash: This happens with major auction houses as well. You can notify the auction house prior to the auction that an item is bogus, and the more reputable auction houses will usually (but not always) pull or revise the lot. But if a buyer purchases a bogus item but doesn't realize it, they are no safer than if they had purchased on ebay.

That's really the biggest overall problem: how does a novice/uneducated buyer get informed that they've purchased a bogus item? The anonymization of ebay prevents direct contact with buyers to warn them.

Even assuming that Anthony's (and other high profile) sellers of questionable items were removed, there are plenty of others just waiting in line to take their place. Without vetting of individual items (which cannot and will not happen) by ebay or a third party, this is a problem that won't go away.

Trying to tackle it from the ebay enforcement/policing side of the equation is IMO an exercise in futility. Reporting items and sellers may make the reporter(s) feel better about themselves, but it does virtually nothing in the global scheme of things.

However, approaching the issue from the other side of the equation, e.g., forums/blogs/websites outside the ebay echosphere educating and warning collectors/buyers is what is more likely to have a lasting effect, in my opinion. Informative threads like this one and others here (sans gnashing of teeth and raging) are an important public service. However, I think that the emotional content dilutes and distracts from the message at times.

Just my 2 cents.

Neither righteous indignation towards selling venues ( ebay) nor enmity towards vendors (Anthony's) will accomplish anything, in my opinion.

I believe 51studebaker is absolutely correct. Educating novice collectors is the most effective course of action.

That is like saying that theives are not a problem. Buyers of the merchandise are. Huh?

Thieves are everywhere, not just on ebay. We cannot rid the world of thieves; we can educate people not to buy their trash.

Yes, thieves are everywhere. That is why measures are taken to protect property and when a thief is found to take action against them. We don't just throw up our hands and say "oh well". ebay does not even expend the energy throwing up its hands. LOL How quickly do you think it would take for ebay to rain done fire upon someone swindling or robbing them? One nanosecond. It is amazing how many folks have the pov that it is what it is and oh well. And if you voice a strong opinion against ebay, look out, you are a ebay hater. Whatever that means.

Bottom line is that ebay is has more than its fair share of dishonest stamp sellers. They are aware or are made aware by good people of this. They do nothing. Not acceptable. I cannot understand the complacency when it comes to ebay. We are talking about the stuff that should be smack dab in their wheelhouse to deal with. Shill bidding. Purchased accounts. Outright fraud. Why the tolerance?

Sigh. It's not tolerance. We keep rehashing the same arguments over and over again.

ebay doesn't take actions on issues that are not blatant listing violations. To do what you are asking requires KNOWLEDGE of the field in question, i.e., philately. ebay CSRs do not have that knowledge. Therefore if it's not a listing violation that is obvious to a lay person they cannot, and SHOULD NOT take action based upon anonymous reports. To do so would open up sellers to being vulnerable to reports from competition. All it would take would be to set up some bogus ebay accounts and gang-report the listings of your competition.

ebay, the business, does not have the expert manpower to vet and/or police all of the collectibles categories.

Yet, people here seem to expect them to do just that.

IT. IS. NOT. A. REALISTIC. EXPECTATION.

Your cap locks is on.

You do not need to be a philatelic guru to police shill bidding, multiple purchased accounts yada yada yada. Some effort to police something, anything would be appreciated. As for subject matter experts my understanding is that that effort by volunteers was done away with. As was the ability to contact bidders. Seems to be a pattern. To each their own.

I feel much safer buying on ebay than from a stamp show, By using a little common sense, one can get some great deals. I haven't had to return one stamp purchase yet. At stamp shows I noticed that a fair number of purchases didn't live up to the seller's grade stated at the show and several were later found to be reperfed.

So it is better to not examine your purchases in person? You did not know the stamp was reperfed when you examined and purchased it but buying a stamp off of ebay by a scan is safer? The stamp show dealer told you a grade and you examined the stamp but later found that it was a lower grade? Trying to understand this.

It is essential to see the stamps in person. If I am unhappy with a stamp purchase on ebay, I would send it back as I make certain that I have the right of return. At stamp shows the lighting is often bad and a dealer's table can get quite crowded. The reperfed stamps bought at a show are a sore topic with me. I found out through a grading service. Nuff said.

The funny thing is that if dealers were making honest mistakes about grading stamps, I'd expect at least one instance to swing in my favor but that hasn't happened.

I appreciate members of this forum pointing out ebay sellers that should be avoided. ebay doesn't have the knowledge or possibly motivation to police auctions, and the ASDA doesn't appear to always protect us from unscrupulous members.

I still buy on ebay, and they do protect buyers and have great options for fixing most issues I encounter. In my opinion they could do more to filter out the scammers, but it is what it is. Apparently the ASDA also is what it is and I will be more mindful of what that logo actually does for me.

Thank goodness, we as a society are governed and live by the rule of law. Theft and fraud are both, last I checked, illegal. But I guess the same does not hold true for online stamp business. I know that I am not in the majority here, but I'm not giving ebay a "pass", and I think ASDA's inaction is downright disgraceful. Anthony's, and other fraudulent operations like them, IMHO should have been shut down a long time ago. I can say that we coin dealers are nowhere near as tolerant with theft, fraud and deception. I will also add that the PNG are far more proactive than the ASDA, and members have been expelled for far less flagrant violations than what Anthony's has been allowed to get away with. I think if we collectively don't agree that there is a serious problem here, and more importantly get vigilant about protecting our hobby from vultures like Anthony's, we may soon find ourselves with no collectors. Last night, a collector got screwed to the tune of $1500. There was no way to contact him, since ebay shrouds their bidders in anonymity. The seller chose to ignore my concern, as did ebay. Doesn't anybody have a problem with this scenario?