Seeking Advice From Those Crazy Ww Collectors

I have dived headfirst into collecting "the world". Yes, I am aware of its pitfalls and the general futility of it, but I'm crazy like that. I don't have unlimited funds so I've started by sorting the 3-4000 I already had and then buying off paper mixtures. I try for 1 penny a stamp or less. I also spend "real" money collecting US used, Greenland, Iceland, and classic Mongolia--for example I bought Greenland MNH 10-18 and Mongolia 4 last week in addition to 8oz of WW off paper. I'm keeping everything in stockbooks right now until I decide what to do about albums (probably Steiner Pages for WW, Stender for Scandinavia, and I have an old National for US, either Steiner or Minkus for Mongolia if they still make the Minkus album). My questions for the other WW collectors:

1. At what time did you see the law of diminishing returns in off paper mixes? For example, I just did 8oz and got about 2500 stamps after accounting for damaged and duplicates. I just ordered another 1000 from another dealer. How long in general before the duplication is over 50%? 75%? I saw in another thread that someone said after you buy 3 WW collections you are getting mostly duplicates. I am not buying WW collections at this point but mixes--I would consider either on or on paper mixtures, although I would prefer off paper as I am more interested in older stamps.

2. Do you keep damaged stamps? The mixes run 5-10% damaged, usually the large pictorials have some creasing, there are short or missing perfs, thins, and damage from hinges. I hate damaged stamps but I also hate having a short set because of a damaged stamp, especially if it's damaged on the back and I can't see the damage.

3. CTO: How much? I know that to collect some countries it's either CTO or mint. I am trying to limit CTO but realistically if I'm going to go into the 80's it's a given unless I want to collect mint, and I think mint just gets too expensive.

4. Up to what year? My main US collection in my National Album goes to 1959 and I have a cheap Liberty album to the year 2000 for more recent US and duplicates. After 2000 it just keeps getting insane for numbers of stamps.

5. Once I've exhausted the off paper mixes, then what? Auctions, country lots, box lots? I'm looking at a few options, but I also want to spend wisely and I figure I can learn from the mistakes of others.

6. Do you finding having trading partners helpful? I have had some offers for trades but so far have not taken anyone up on it. In my previous collecting life I had a trade partner and it was OK.

7. How much do you pay for common stamps? Right now I'm looking at a penny or less, what's realistic going forward?

Thanks for any advice.

Paulsonja

1. I no longer buy mixtures. They're fun, but I never see anything I need. They mostly sell to beginner collectors or those just looking to fill very generalized basic albums. Nothing wrong with them, but mixtures for any country will very quickly duplicate -- so always buy the mixture with the largest number of stamps you can afford. It's nearly always better to buy collections since they will have little to no duplication and the hard work will have been done for you by someone else. And sometimes you get a decent album, too.

2. I throw away all damaged stamps that aren't unusual or rare in some way, but I might keep the less damaged ones for awhile just as "space fillers" until I get better ones.

3. Many countries flood the market with CTO stamps which is fine if you want them. They're not always obvious and real cancelled 'used' stamps are preferable. This is one of a number of reasons most collectors seem to collect mint stamps or at least unused stamps. I like used stamps, but tend to steer away from CTO stamps since they have a kind of phony quality. Whatever you like.

4. Collect up to any point you like. By the 1990s, U.S. stamps were a bit out of control with all the stupid little 'sheetlets' and so on, plus so many unnecessary stamps being issued. This was common for many other countries, as well, not just the U.S. You might browse the catalogue and choose a cut-off year, but I find I still collect beyond that year anyway -- because I have absolutely no self control. 1990 or 2000 would be good years to choose, I suppose.

5. Yes, auctions are a good way to buy stamps, either large accumulations (often sold very cheaply just to get rid of them) with stock books, envelopes of stamps, and so on, or collections in albums. You used to be able to do this at stamp dealers but they've mostly disappeared. ebay sometimes works, but keep in mind most collections you see on general auction sites will have been picked over with the better stamps removed (hence all the empty mounts and hinge remnants). So you're getting lots of cheaper stamps. At better auctions that may not be the case. Your other choices will also work. Again, you want the most stamps for a collecting area (usually a country) as you can get. Nordfrim has an online (and paper) catalogue and sells many large lots of stamps useful for more beginning collectors. Worth looking into.

6. I've never had trading partners. Too time consuming to trade a few stamps at a time. But it might be fun. It would take time and effort just to acquire a few stamps you could get other ways.

7. A penny for common stamps is very cheap. In auction lots, I generally want to pay no more than 10 cents a stamp, if possible (sometimes more), but that is going to include many better stamps along with common stamps. If you bought 2000 stamps from one country for $20 that would be pretty amazing, so I assume you mean general worldwide stamps at that price. What's realistic is what you can afford from good dealers you are happy with. Paying more is not a bad idea if you end up with fewer duplicates and better stamps, otherwise you're always buying cheap stamps of little value.

1. If you collect modern material, off-paper mixes may be useful for a long time: but good mixes of modern material will often cost a lot more than 1 cent per (different) stamp. If you collect with a cutoff date, you will hit a wall -- after around 20K different pre-1940 stamps or so, it will be hard to find anything new at the 1 cent per stamp level. You'll end up with a lot of duplicates of common material that's hard to trade or sell, and the average price per new stamp in the mixes will get too high.

2. My collection has few damaged stamps, but there may be some times you'll have to compromise: some rarer stamps are seldom or never available sound, for example. If you're sticking to common stuff only, at the pennies-per level, why keep the damaged?

3. Building even a merely representative collection of places like North Borneo, Labuan, Liberia, or classic Persia is near impossible without keeping CTO stamps. So I wouldn't worry too much about the number of CTOs. But postally used is almost always out there somewhere, unless we're talking about pure fantasy issuers like Staffa or Nagaland. Maybe not at the pennies-per-stamp level though.

4. I collect right up to today, though modern stuff I mostly keep postally used, as buying mint new issues isn't exactly an engaging challenge. Many modern stamps are tough, especially used.

5. If you want to expand beyond the pennies-per level, country collections are usually the next step. If you collect modern material, you will definitely want to consider purchasing large general collections as well. I've had substantial success purchasing messy collections in crummy albums (Harris Citation, e.g.): I have obtained thousands of modern stamps that just aren't findable postally used any other way. You aren't likely to find long runs of postally used Central African Republic, say, anywhere but a giant general collection. Of course, this comes with pitfalls; you have to know the dealers or auction houses you're working with, and inspect the material closely whenever possible, or you're likely to overpay.

6. Sometimes. I keep an inventory of what I have, and can easily tell you what my duplicates are (just about to my 200,000th different stamp, hooray) but at any given time I have a roomful of stamps to process yet so what I "need" is a tougher question. Even at two hundred thousand different "low hanging fruit" still exists -- it's still possible to pull out an inexpensive lot and find hundreds or thousands of stamps that I don't yet have. But I've obtained pretty nice stamps in trade with other collectors, too.

7. Not all common stamps are created equal, that's for sure. If you want to build, say, a collection of 90% of the world's stamps to whatever date, only omitting the 10% most expensive issues, you'll find that some stamps with tiny catalog values (the ones that are "supposed" to be common) almost never appear. Some stuff you won't get unless you're willing to pay for specialist collections which contain expensive material as well. Since 100% completion is not going to happen even if you have Bill Gross's bankbook, just spend whatever hobby budget you're comfortable with.

Thanks for your advice. Since I'm basically a beginner at WW, I am still getting different stamps in the mixtures but I know that will change. The penny each is for general WW. It's good to know that 10 cents a stamp is a good rule of thumb for collections.

I collect Mongolia (pre 1960 mostly, I lived there for 3 years when I was young and foolish) and there are a bunch of stamps that catalogue for less than $5 and are almost impossible to find, and when you do they go for more than $5. I enjoy the hunt.

I see a lot of collections on ebay that are 1 country on Scott Specialized pages or others. This may be my next foray after the penny stamps are exhausted. I think I must be somewhere in the 8,000 stamo range so the 20K wall is not that wall away.

I do go to stamp shows often but find that most collections are much more than 10 cents a stamp and often the best stuff is pulled. I need to start looking at the messy albums ;)

Thanks!

Paulsonja

Always glad to find others to discuss 'Collecting The World' with.

1. Off-paper mixes will get duplicative pretty quickly at the penny-per-stamp level. If you are willing to pay a little more (5-10c per stamp) or buy on-paper mixes and do the soaking work, you can fill in some spaces not normally found in the off-paper inexpensive ones. While I don't keep a list of everything I have, I do rate countries I have as beginner, intermediate or advanced. I'll buy a cheap off-paper mix from a country I've listed as 'beginner' as I knowing I have a lot of spaces to fill.

2. I don't keep damaged stamps; I toss them. The only exceptions I make are those with a significant catalog value (meaning I'm unlikely to encounter it again soon) or if it has a special perfin, pre-cancel, cancellation or postmark.

3. I avoid CTOs where possible. If I encounter them I collect them, but I don't seek them out and I count it as a negative if a mixture does not say 'no CTOs'. I usually have many other country collections/mixtures on-hand to process and so, many 'heavy CTO' countries are at the bottom of my work list. That said, countries like Tanzania have many attractive stamps! (WW collector at heart)

4. I collect right up to today. I have developed a small list of dealers with whom I have done business in the past who have good selections of worldwide stamps, and buy from them periodically. I have found most of these by responding to ads in the back of Linn's.

5. Auctions can be good, but I'd recommend those you can attend in person so that you can view the lots before bidding. Especially in the area of WW mixed lots, short lot descriptions are just not able to do it justice. Of course, there can be surprises lurking as well. I acquire more material than I can process by going to stamp shows within my driveable radius, maybe 5-8 a year. I get to look it over before buying and I have often found incredible bargains that dealers are just looking to move.

6. I echo what others have said about trading. There is a lot of work involved in organizing/mounting/valuing for trades, and I usually would rather spend time processing some of my backlog. I do have visions of meeting a good local trading partner someday, and keep my dups organized by country, with a 'better' category for each if needed.

7. I usually try to keep my purchases somewhere around 10c per stamp when buying lots/mixtures/collections. I do pay more for individual stamps from Hipstamp or ebay when I find something I really want. Even in that case, I will then look at the seller's other offers to try to spread the shipping cost out. Sorting low price to high price is a wonderful feature. :)

Most importantly, don't overthink it. Buy what interests you and don't be afraid to take a detour if the opportunity presents itself. Like Belgian Parcel Post stamp station cancels...but I digress.

My advice is make a short term plan and a long term plan . Most Worldwide collectors give up in a few years and go off in a different direction with about half of those going in no direction .

The first rule is to have fun ,second rule is not to lose too much money but stick with a plan .

1. It's complicated
My collection is at 115K different stamps and I still buying random off-paper mixtures. But the further you go, the more selective you'll have to become.

2. Damaged goods should be placed to paper recycling bin...
I did the mistake of keeping "damaged stamps" in the beginning, and it was a pain to weed them out on later point.


3. It's your collection, do whatever feels ok.
That said, as you progress you will eventually discover real used even from those "hard to obtain places" you considered impossible. It can be discovering random stamp here and there, or it can be a single lucky shot that completes most of your holes... It's all about patience and persistence.

4. Why put up any year limits? Collect whatever comes your way and makes you happy...

5. In addition of buying country collections etc. from auction, I would mention stamp exchanges. They can be very cost efficient way to locate some hard-to-discover stamps.

6. I find having trading partners extremely useful (and the more the merrier).
And this applies to both "penny per stamp" as well as "higher value" stamps.


7. For bulk collections and mixtures I'll go for "less than penny", for very specific lots "north of 10 cents/stamp" is good rule of thumb.

-k-

1. If you have a local auction house nearby, I recommend going after the "wholesale" lots. 10 boxes of misc. from a deceased collector. For the big lots, you need a pickup truck...

2. No

3. For many countries, CTO's are what's out there. Take Eastern Europe for example. I have no problem collecting CTO's.

4. I've gradually moved backwards. Never later than 2000. But, collect whatever makes YOU happy.

5. When you have bought 5 tons of (see 1.) I recommend going after country collections. Choose the countries that you fancy. These collections contain many of the more expensive stamp you will be missing at this point.

6. Yes, but they are difficult to find. Consider making a blog or something similar.

7. Whatever my stomach tells me is the right price.

--

Good luck, collecting WW can be extremely fun

I appreciate everyone's input. Collecting WW is a whole different ballgame than collecting a specific area/country. You guys are right, keeping a damaged copy of a penny stamp is not productive and it will lead to much more work than leaving an empty space for a sound copy.

Paulsonja

Paulsonja ----Lots of good information here . My big thing about collecting worldwide is a neat and well organized collection . It doesn't matter if you have 100 different or 400,000 different if it is not well organized then you fall into that large group of stamp hoarders that have piles of envelopes and boxes sitting around that never gets processed .

As someone mentioned previously, the chances of people losing interest or drifting away is higher - if they truly WW..

It is so vast.

I went WW, but narrowed it down to 1840-1940. My scott international has 36K spots to fill.

I have reached 10K by going aggressive and it itself is so challenging.

I went bulk in the first two attempts. Thereafter I see best looking for specialized collections to assimilate or hunting down country wise collections or looking for singles.

I pay around 10 cents a stamp these days.

Hey, I'm sure I will get to it someday.

Seriously, for the WW collector (especially 1840-1940), check out my

Big Blue 1840-1940 stamp blog.....

http://bigblue1840-1940.blogspot.com

Jim - I have your blog as my bible !!!!!!! and so do the other WW collectors over here :)

I did not realize that the Big Blue blog author was a forum member--I go there regularly. It is an amazing resource. Thank you! I have thought about limiting my years of collecting and I may do so in the future. I have made a start and I'll see where it takes me.

Paulsonja

" limiting my years in collecting " ?????? "I limit my buying to a penny or less " ?????? Really . Your approach is all wrong and you will be quitting soon . GOODBY!!!!

Make a plan that your going to enjoy yourself and have something that you can develop in time . For me stamps have been a quiet time and a way to relax . Something you can do when the day is over and escape from all that crap that happen outside your front door .

Well, if you're only just getting started I think your approach will change radically over time once you gain experience.

Basically, those off-paper mixtures you can buy will prove ultimately to be a waste of money ... but in the meantime they are a good way to learn about the 500,000 or so stamps in the catalogue. There really is no other way.

The best thing to buy is to get the biggest and best collection your money can buy from an estate or similar, bought at auction. The problem with this is that unless you've spent hundreds of hours and wasted a lot of money on the basic lots, you'll have no idea what the biggest and best lot at the best price actually is.

In summary? Learn as you go along -- there's no other way. Just have fun while you do it!