Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Another Great Classic Multiple Bites The Dust

Previous Page | Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 81 / Views: 5,399Next Topic
Page: of 6
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3499 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   10:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It would be interesting if it sold, or eventually sells, for less than the original block.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10670 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   10:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As I wrote above, it was withdrawn. We don't know why.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
540 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   11:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rhett to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The auctioneer announced when this lot came up at the auction yesterday that it was withdrawn by the consignor but not because of any problem with the item. He said the consignor was upset because the auction house did not list the SMQ value for a single graded 100J in the lot description (I inferred that there is no listed SMQ value for a pair). I guess the auction house did not want to confuse the issue by listing an SMQ value for a single when this was a pair, but evidently the consignor thought it was important information to have in the lot description for his purposes.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
723 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   12:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rismoney to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess they could not risk the stamp being seen for what it was, rather than what they want the market to see it as.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10670 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That sounds pretty flimsy to me, since anyone actually interested in bidding would have looked it up beforehand anyway. But with that much money at stake, who knows.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1337 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   5:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DrewM to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
By an extreme "private" property rights argument, I would have the right to purchase a famous old painting and paint over it or destroy it. I would have the right to purchase a classic of architecture and knock it down. And so on. Clearly, that's insane, and most communities have regulations about such things. No one would subscribe to a theory that gives all rights to someone simply because they have more money. In a humane society, simply having more money does not make you better or wiser or entitle you to destroy cultural heritage. What cultural heritage is worth preserving is always the question, not whether cultural heritage should be preserved. We're beyond the caveman stage on this issue.

Each of us has a responsibility to use a degree of social consciousness and have a sense of responsibility for what we do. Great artwork, classic architecture, and beautiful objects like stamp multiples do deserve protection. The question then is "how"? My concern over cutting up a stamp multiple is much less than losing a great painting or other iconic work, but there should still be some way to argue against doing this -- at least in some cases. Ownership of a classic block of stamps does not give you the right to destroy it anymore than owning a 24c airmail invert would "allow" you to light your cigar with it. At some point, such items pass from mere private property into public responsibility. Or else I could buy the Parthenon, knock it down, and build some really nice condos in its place.

What's needed is a code of conduct for stamp collectors which states clearly what a responsible collector is generally allowed to do and what they should not do -- or at least should weigh carefully. Obviously there's no way to enforce such a code, but stamp organizations should consider enforcing such basic rules. Damaging a philatelic item might result in expulsion from an organization, for one thing. You get expelled for failure to pay your stamp debt, so why not for destroying an icon of stamp collecting which may be far worse? The idea that a group could be organized to purchase such items is a bit too pie-in-the-sky for my taste. Where do the millions of dollars to purchase all these items come from? In a perfect world, a group of wealthy collectors might finance such a group -- but in the scale of things, I'd much rather they finance medical research or ways to end poverty, not the protection of blocks of stamps.

If you purchase a block of 12 classic stamps for $1 million dollars, and are convinced that each stamp separately would sell for at least $100,000, do you have the right to cut up the block and sell the stamps for $1.2 million? I'd say "Usually, yes, you do" but not always. In short, "It depends." Maybe you should give it a great deal of thought and ask for advice from the appropriate authorities first -- rather than doing it in the dark of night. It may be your property but if it has a cultural or historic significance, maybe there are things you should not do.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by DrewM - 12/11/2018 5:14 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
12330 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the mountains of Western North Carolina we have 'ridge laws' which are very controversial. People are attracted to move for the beauty of the mountains landscape but then rip down all the trees on top of the mountain so they can build houses with a 'view'. People in the valleys, and the tourist industry, do not like this. The people who buy the land feel they can do what they want. People have been shot over this.

Obviously philately does not have 'historical landmark' or other cultural heritage regulations (thank goodness?). Who would police something like that? Designating and protecting a building or landmark is relatively easy. If folks are uneasy about museums buying up rare philatelic material how would they feel if someone suddenly declared what they owned as 'protected' and control over what they could and couldn't do with it? 'Bad new Mr. Gross, you now do not have control over $XXX,XXX,XXX of your own material'. That is not going to sit too well and may well drive a number of the high end collectors out of the hobby. It might also drive a bunch of material 'underground'.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
355 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   6:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TangStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This tragedy wouldn't have happened for stamps with perforation or in any other markets. I think only US market is crazy about the grading. And how the imperf stamps are graded is questionable.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by TangStamps - 12/11/2018 6:53 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10670 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   6:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alas, that's not true either. I have seen 505 error blocks that were cut from the sheet and were cut through the middle of the 499's surrounding the block. Granted, 499 is not remotely a scarce number, but still...............
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
355 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   7:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TangStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
what's the point of cutting the surroundings of a stamp with perforation? Worrying about damaging the perfs when separating?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10670 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   7:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I expect that it's all about the look of it, and the expectation of a better grade.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
12601 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   9:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The entire thing baffles me. If you were to cut the same 17 from the multiple at the extreme outer limit of the interstitial space (margin) between stamps would that not be the same 100J grade? If not why not?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1272 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   9:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, a bit off topic..If I had the $$$ I'd be living in/around Highlands N.C.--Mountain top or valley either one.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10670 Posts
Posted 12/11/2018   9:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The margins on the 1851 issue is very small. That's why it is all but impossible to get a four margin example for any of them. I doubt that cutting it at the edge of the design would produce sufficient margin to get a 100 grade, and definitely not enough to get a 100J.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3860 Posts
Posted 12/12/2018   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Until more and more philatelic experts start to classify such a desecration as a multiple/block of 9 stamps with 7 damaged or mutilated stamps which is exactly what it is rather than a perfectly centered pair, this destruction will keep on occurring. To me any stamp remnant left from any stamps that have been deliberately cut counts as a damaged stamp. Where are the highly knowledgeable, influential and respected stamp experts? Why don't we try an open letter or open editorial or open petition from all of us who are against this.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 12/12/2018 10:03 am
Page: of 6 Previous TopicReplies: 81 / Views: 5,399Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.21 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05